THIS PROGRAM IS MADE BY MPT TO ENRICH THE DIVERSE COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT OUR STATE AND IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF OUR MEMBERS.

THANK YOU.

[♪♪] CONNECTING MARYLANDERS TO THEIR GOVERNMENT, THIS IS "STATE CIRCLE".

>> Jeff: WELCOME TO "STATE CIRCLE".

JUST AHEAD ON OUR PROGRAM THIS WEEK A STANFORD STUDY FINDS UNDERSTANDING OF FINANCIAL CONCEPTS AT A 10-YEAR LOW.

WE WILL LOOK AT ONE EFFORT TO IMPROVE THAT.

FIRST TONIGHT FLASHING LIGHTS IN THE AIR.

MONTGOMERY COUNTY IS EXPANDING% ITS FLEET OF POLICE DRONES.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE LEGAL ISSUES INVOLVED AFTER THIS REPORT FROM MPT'S NANCY YAMADA.

>> HOW DO YOU IN THE TIME WHEN YOU ARE STRUGGLING ON STAFFING HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE WHAT YOU DO IN THE FIELD.

>> ?

THE ANSWER IS DRONES ACCORDING TO THE EXECUTIVE.

THE POLICE BEGAN USINGS SYSTEM TO CAPTURE SHOTS AND SWEEPING LANDSCAPES IN 2023.

>> SINCE THE PROGRAM BEGAN OUR DRONES HAVE RESPONDED TO MORE THAN 5,000 CALLS FOR SERVICE AND PROVIDED OFFICERS WITH REALTIME INFORMATION BEFORE THEY ARRIVE TO THE CALLS FOR SERVICE AND THEY'VE HELPED US RESOLVE CALLS WITHOUT UP NECESSARILY HAVING TO DISPATCH OFFICERS BY DIVERTING THE CALLS TO OTHER AGENCIES.

>> THE PROGRAM HAS BEEN SO SUCCESSFUL THE POLICE ARE LAUNCHING THE FIRST-RESPONDER PROGRAM AND THERE WILL BE 12 NEW DRONES AT SIX SITES STLU OUT THE COUNTY.

THE NEW DRONES ARE LIGHTER, HAVE GREATER BATTERY LIFE AND CAN OPERATE AT LOWER ALTITUDES.

>> NOT ONLY CAN A DRONE GO OUT FOR 30 MINUTES AND WHEN THE BATTERY GETS LOW IF THE OPERATION IS STILL GOING ON WE WILL DEPLOY A SECOND ONE AND GHIF GIVES US THE ABILITY TO HAVE TWO PILOTS FLYING TWO DRONES.

>> THE CAPTAIN OF THE DIRECTOR OF THE DIVISION HE SAYS IN MOST CASES THE DRONES REACH ITS DESTINATION BEFORE OFFICERS ARRIVE.

>> WHEN WE GET OVERHEAD WITH A DRONE WE'RE ABLE TO GET A BETTER SITUATIONAL AWARENESS OF WHAT IS GOING ON.

WE HAVE HAD EXAMPLES OF A DOMESTIC OR A DISTURBANCE AND WE SEE IT HAS ESCALATED INTO A FIGHT AND BASED ON WHAT WE'RE SEEING WE ARE ABLE TO UP RAID THAT CALL AND GET THE OFFICERS THERE.

>> THE EXECUTIVE WANTS TO ASSURE RESIDENTS THE DRONES WILL BE LAUNCHED AFTER A 911 CALL COMES IN AND THEY WILL NOT PATROL NEIGHBORHOODS.

>> THE DRONE IS NOT PATROLLING TRYING TO IDENTIFY WHICH IS WHAT PEOPLE WORRY ABOUT WILL THIS BE USED TO IDENTIFY PEOPLE.

THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO SPECIFIC CALLS ABOUT A SPECIFIC PROBLEM.

>> THERE IS NO FACIAL RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY INVOLVED IN THIS PROGRAM AT ALL.

THE IDEA DRONES ARE NOT EQUIPPED WITH MICROPHONES.

>> THE GOAL IS INCREASING PUBLIC SAFETY.

THE NEW SYSTEM WILL EXPAND THE COUNTY'S COVERAGE FROM THE CURRENT 30 SQUARE MILES TO 85 SQUARE MILES AND WILL BE ABLE TO OPERATE 12 HOURS A DAY, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.

I'M NANCY YAMADA FOR "STATE CIRCLE".

>> Jeff: THANK YOU, JOINING US IS BEN YELIN WHO TEACHES A COURSE ON NATIONAL SECURITY ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE AND THE FOURTH AMENDMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND CAREY SCHOOL OF LAW.

SIR, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THE FOURTH AMENDMENT SAYS NO UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES.

THAT'S BEEN LITIGATED FOR A FEW YEARS, HAS IT NOT?

>> IT SURE HAS LITIGATED GOING BACK 100 YEARS IS THE BIRTH TIME OF FOURTH AMENDMENT JURISPRUDENCE.

AND IT COMES DOWN TO TWO THRESHOLD QUESTIONS TRANSPLANT PROHIBITEDS UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES.

THE QUESTION YOU HAVE TO ASK IS HAS THERE BEEN A SEARCH IN THE FIRST PLACE AND IF THERE HAS WAS THAT SEARCH REASONABLE.

SO OFTEN TIMES CASES ARE DECIDED ON THAT FIRST QUESTION THINGS THAT WE MIGHT THINK AS SEARCHES, DUE TO THE SUPREME COURT'S JURISPRUDENCE THEY MIGHT NOT COUNT FOR SEARCHES FOR FOURTH AMENDMENT PURPOSES.

>> Jeff: WHEN WE THINK ABOUT DRONES FLYING AROUND SAY THEY ARE RESPONDING URGENTLY, RAPIDLY GETTING TO THE SCENE FIRST OF SOMETHING IN YOUR NEIGHBOR'S BACKYARD.

AND IS WHATEVER THEY SEE ON THE DRONE IN YOUR VIEW, RECORDABLE AND POTENTIALLY ADMISSIBLE?

>> I THINK GENERALLY IT IS ADMISSIBLE.

SO IT COMES DOWN TO A PERSON'S REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY.

WHEN YOU ARE IN YOUR HOUSE YOU HAVE A REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY YOU HAVE THAT SUBJECTIVE EXPECTATION SO YOU ARE MANIFESTING YOU ARE TRYING TO KEEP YOUR INTERACTIONS PRIVATE.

AND ONE THAT SOCIETY IS PREPARED TO RECOGNIZE AS REASONABLE BECAUSE YOUR HOME IS YOUR CASTLE THAT IS A CONCEPT WE'VE INHERITED FROM ENGLISH COMMON LAW.

WHEN IT GETS TO YOUR BACKYARD IT'S VERY INTERESTING BUT THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF SUPREME COURT CASES GOING BACK TO THE 1980s ABOUT AERIAL SURVEILLANCE WHERE PEOPLE WERE GROWING MARIJUANA IN THEIR BACKYARDS AND THERE WERE LOW FLYING AIRCRAFT TAKING PICTURES AND THE SUPREME COURT SAYS AS IT RELATES TO TECHNOLOGY THAT'S NORMALLY AVAILABLE IN THE PUBLIC MARKET AND THAT THE PUBLIC IS AWARE OF YOU DO NOT HAVE A REASONABLE EXPECTTION OF PRIVACY EVEN IN YOUR BACKYARD AS IT RELATES TO THAT AERIAL SURVEILLANCE.

PEOPLE KNOW OR SHOULD KNOW THAT AIRCRAFT ARE CAPABLE OF FLYING AT THOSE ALTITUDES AND ARE CAPABLE OF TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS AND THEREFORE THAT EXTINGUISHES YOUR REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY.

THERE'S NO SEARCH FOR FOURTH AMENDMENT PURPOSES THAT IS, I THINK, THE FOURTH AMENDMENT JURISPRUDENCE MOST RESOLUTION HERE.

>> Jeff: ALL RIGHT.

STICKING WITH THAT SCENARIO, SAY THE DRONE IS RESPONDING TO YOUR NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE.

THEY FLYOVER YOUR BACKYARD AND NOTICE A ILLEGAL MARIJUANA FIELD.

WHICH IS NOT TOTALLY ILLEGAL AT THE MOMENT BUT A LARGE AMOUNT MIGHT BE.

DOES THAT CHANGE ANYTHING IF THE DISPATCH WAS TO THE NEIGHBOR NOT TO YOUR HOUSE?

>> IT DOES NOT CHANGE ANYTHING PAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A SEARCH IN THE FIRST PLACE IT DISUS' MATTER WHETHER LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS PROBABLE CAUSE FOR ONE PERSON OR ANOTHER.

IT'S IN PUBLIC VIEW.

WHATEVER THEY SEE AND CAPTURE THEY CAN HOLD AT THAT TIME AGAINST ANYBODY BECAUSE THE FOURTH AMENDMENT DOESN'T APPLY HERE.

WE DON'T HAVE A 7 OR SEIZURES FOR FOURTH AMENDMENT PURPOSES BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE A REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY IN WHAT AIRCRAFT AT A REASONABILITY ALTITUDE CAN SEE IN MY BACKYARD.

ANYTHING THAT IS PUBLICLY VIEWABLE BY A NORMAL AIRCRAFT.

TALKING ABOUT ADVANCED MILITARY DRONE, WHERE THE MARIJUANA CAN ONLY BE SPOTTED WHATEVER WITH A CERTAIN MILITARY GRADE CAMERA OR FREQUENCY THAT MIGHT CHANGE THINGS.

AS IT RELATES TO DRONES THAT YOU TARGET PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE THE EXPECTATION THAT THAT TECHNOLOGY EXISTS AND THEY CAN TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS.

DOESN'T MATTER WHO THE POLICE ARE TARGETING FAIRLY.

IF IT'S IN PUBLIC VIEW EASTERN IN YOUR BACKYARD IT'S FAIR GAME WITHOUT ANY TYPE OF PROBABLE CAUSE DETERMINATION.

>> Jeff: ROUGHLY FIVE YEARS AGO, BALTIMORE CITY WAS FLYING A FIXED WING AIRCRAFT WITH SOME HIGH RESOLUTION CAMERA TECHNOLOGY MOUNTED UNDERNEATH IT.

AND I REMEMBER IT WAS HUGELY CONTROVERSIAL.

I THINK IT ENDED I DON'T THINK IT ENDED BECAUSE OF A COURT DECISION.

I THINK IT WAS POLITICAL.

DO YOU REMEMBER THAT CASE?

>> I DO AND IT IS RELEVANT.

THE CASE WAS LEADERS OF A BEAUTIFUL STRUGGLE VERSUS THE CITY OF BALTIMORE THAT WAS THE ADVOCACY GROUP THAT CAME TOGETHER AGAINST THAT SPY PLANE.

IT WAS DISCONTINUED PRIOR TO THE LITIGATION BY THE COURAGE MAYOR BRANDON SCOTT WHEN HE CAME INTO OFFICE HE DISCONTINUED THAT SURVEILLANCE.

BUT THEY STILL WENT THROUGH WITH THE COURT CASE IN CASE THE SURVEILLANCE COMES BACK.

THE DIFFERENCE WITH THAT SPY PLANE IS IT WAS FLYING CONTINUOUSLY.

SO IT FLEW OVER A CERTAIN AREA IN BALTIMORE CITY DURING DAYLIGHT HOURS CONSTANTLY AND IT WAS TAKING PICTURES EVERY TWO OR THREE SECONDS.

WITH TECHNOLOGY LIKE THAT YOU COULD TRACK THE WHOLE OF A PERSPECTIVE'S MOVEMENT EVEN IF THE PEOPLE ARE ANON-MID, YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WHO THEY ARE IF YOU TRACK THEM TO THEIR HOME ADDRESS AND FOLLOW THEM TO WORK.

YOU COULD TRACK A WHOLE OF A PERSON'S MOVEMENT OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME AND IN THE SUPREME COURT'S VIEW THAT CHANGES THE GAME.

WHEN YOU CAN DO THAT LONG-TERM ALL ENCOMPASSING SURVEILLANCE, THEN THE FOURTH AMENDMENT DOES APPLY AND THERE IS A FOURTH AMENDMENT SEARCH AND IN ORDER FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO USE THAT EVIDENCE THEY NEEDED TO OBTAIN A WARRANT SUPPORTED BY PROBABLE CAUSE.

THE DISTINGUISHING FACTOR IS THE DEPTH, THE BREADTH AND THE ONGOING NATURE OF THAT SURVEILLANCE.

A LOT OF THAT REASONING COMES FROM A SUPREME COURT CASE FROM 2018, UNITED STATES VERSUS CARPENTER WHICH WAS ABOUT HISTORICAL SELF SITE LOCATION INFORMATION.

WHATEVER YOUR PHONE IS IT PINGS A CELLPHONE TOWER AND THE PHONE COMPANY KEEPS RECORDS ARE WHEN YOUR PHONE PINGS THAT TOWER.

YOU HAVE GIVEN THAT INFORMATION TO YOUR PHONE COMPANY YOU DO NOT HAVE A REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY THEREFORE THE FOURTH AMENDMENT DOES NOT APPLY AND THE SUPREME COURT SAID WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MONTHS OR WEEKS, SOMETIMES YEARS WORTH OF DATA THAT IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE THAT CAN ENCOMPASS A WHOLE OF A PERSON'S MOVEMENT YOU CAN DISCOVER A PERSON'S PRIVATE, POLITICAL, RELIGIOUS E. SEXUAL ASSOCIATIONS WHICH DOES INFRINGE ON A PERSON'S PRIVACY.

THE BALTIMORE SPY PLANE WAS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE WHICH AT LEAST IS LIMITED IN ITS SCOPE.

>> Jeff: HOW STABLE HAS THE JURISPRUDENCE ON THIS BEEN?

WE HAVE A SUPREME COURT THAT MOVED TO THE RIGHT ON ISSUES.

WE HAVE TECHNOLOGIES THAT THE WRITERS OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS NEVER COULD HAVE POSSIBLY IMAGINED.

>> YEAH.

WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF MOVEMENT ON THIS AND SURPRISINGLY IN A CIVIL LIBERTARIAN DIRECTION.

I MENTIONED THE CARPENTER DECISION.

JUST THIS YEAR THE SUPREME COURT REACHED A DECISION IN THE CASE CALLED CAT TRIVERSUS THE UNITED STATES AND THIS IS GEOFENCE WARRANTS WHEN LAW ENFORCEMENT GOES TO GOOGLE THE PARTY IN THAT CASE AND SAYS THERE WAS A BANK ROBBERY CAN YOU GIVE ME ALL OF THE DEVICES UNIQUE IDENTIFIERS OF THOSE DEVICES IN THAT LOCATION AT THAT TIME.

THAT A MULTISTEP PROCESS BUT THE SUPREME COURT SAID A PERSON DOES HAVE A REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY IN AT THAT TIME SCENARIO.

A LOT OF THE REASONING WAS WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A CHOICE IN THE MATTER BECAUSE OF THE SMARTPHONES.

IF WE DIDN'T HAVE A SMARTPHONE WE COULDN'T CARRY ON THE NORMAL RHYTHM RELATIONSHIPS OF EVERYDAY LIFE.

WE ARE NOT REALLY MEANINGFULLY CONSENTING TO IT BECAUSE WE NEED SMARTPHONES TO INTERACT WITH OUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY.

SOME TYPE OF SMARTPHONE DEVICE.

AS IT RELATES TO THE NORMAL FEATURES OF SMARTPHONES LIKE LOCATION SHARING, PEOPLE DO HAVE IS A REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY EVEN THOUGH IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE ARE WILLINGLY GIVING TO A THIRD PARTY.

WHEN WE PRESS THE I AGREE TO YOUR TERMS OF SERVICE THAT IS US CONSENTING THEM COLLECTING OUR DATA.

WHAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS SAID IS WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING ALL ENCOMPASSING LONG-TERM THAT COULD SHARE A PERSON'S PRIVATE ASSOCIATIONS THAT DOES IMPLICATE THE FOURTH AMENDMENT PROTECTION IN A WAY THAT TEMPORARY DRONE SURVEILLANCE WOULD NOT.

>> Jeff: AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'VE CONSENTED TO IN CLICKING THE BUTTON ON VARIOUS SOFTWARE.

LET'S STAY WITH CELLPHONES FOR A SECOND.

SAY YOU ARE COMING BACK TO THE UNITED STATES FROM A TRIP.

YOU ARE AN AMERICAN FINS CAN BORDER SECURITY ASK TO SEARCH YOUR PHONE?

>> YES.

SO GENERALLY THERE IS AN EXCEPTION TO THE WARRANT REQUIREMENT AT THE BORDER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY PURPOSES.

SO NORMALLY, ANY SEARCH OF THE PHONE ACCORDING TO THE CASE OF REILLY VERSUS CALIFORNIA, REQUIRES SEPARATE WARRANT BASED ON PROBABLE CAUSE.

BUT BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT SECURITY INTERESTS AT THE BORDER AS IT RELATES TO U.S.

CITIZENS THOSE STANDARDS ARE LESSENED BECAUSE WE HAVE AN INTEREST IN MAKING SURE THAT EVERYBODY WHO COMES INTO OUR COUNTRY IS LAWFUL, ISN'T BRINGING BACK CONTRABAND FOR EXAMPLE.

THE STANDARD IS LESSENED.

IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S ZERO YOU DO NOT HAVE THE HEIGHTENED PROBABLE CAUSE REQUIREMENT THAT YOU WOULD HAVE FOR ANY OTHER CELLPHONE SEARCH.

THERE'S BEEN CONFLICTING CASE LAW.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DEEP FORENSIC SEARCHES AND MORE INFORMAL SEARCHES WHERE THEY ASK YOU TO GIVE THEM YOUR PASSCODE LOOKING AT YOUR NOTES APP ONE APPLICATION.

IF THEY ARE DOING A FORENSIC SEARCH MOST COURTS HAVE HELD THAT STILL REQUIRES SOME TYPE OF PROBABLE CAUSE.

BUT YOUR EXPECTATIONS OF PRIVACY AT THE BORDER ARE SIGNIFICANTLY LESSENED THAN THEY ARE ANYWHERE ELSE.

>> Jeff: I ONLY HAVE 30 SECONDS.

HERE IS ANOTHER HOT TOPIC, FACIAL RECOGNITION.

LIKE THERE WAS A NEIGHBORHOOD COP ON THE BEAT WHO RECOGNIZES ME THAT IS ONE THING.

OF IF IT'S A COMPUTER PROGRAM SCANNING A BUNCH OF IMAGES IS THAT SOMETHING DIFFERENT?

>> IT'S HARD TO TELL.

THE WAY OUR CURRENT SUPREME COURT JURISPRUDENCE WORKS THERE IS NOT A DIFFERENCE BECAUSE IT COMES DOWN TO THE REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY.

IF I AM IN A PUBLIC PLACE WHETHER A POLICE OFFICER OR A CAMERA THAT IS TAKING AN IMAGE OF ME AND IS GOING TO USE FACIAL RECOGNITION I DON'T HAVE THAT REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY THEREFORE THERE IS NO FOURTH AMENDMENT EVENT.

I DON'T HAVE FOURTH AMENDMENT PROTECTION.

NOW, THIS IS SOMETHING THE SUPREME COURT MIGHT TAKE UP IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE THAT THERE ARE CAMERAS EVERYWHERE NOW AND YOU COULD TRACK A WHOLE OF A PERSON'S MOVEMENT JUST BY HAVING THE CAMERAS TAKING PICTURES AND RUNNING THEM THROUGH DATA BASES AND PEOPLE RECOGNIZING FACES THROUGH FACIAL RECOGNITION BUT WE HAVE NOT GOTTEN THERE TO THIS POINT.

>> Jeff: BEN YELIN TEACHES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND CAREY SCHOOL OF LAW WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

[♪♪] >> Jeff: A RECENT STUDY FINDS THAT AMERICANS UNDERSTANDING OF BASIC FINANCIAL CONCEPTS HAS FALLEN TO A 10-YEAR LOW.

JOINING US AS OUR NEWSMAKER IS KEITH O'NEIL HE IS THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF THE JOHNS HOPKINS FEDERAL CREDIT UNION.

SIR, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Jeff: HOW WOULD YOU RATE THE CURRENT LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC OF BASIC FINANCIAL CONCEPTS?

>> YOU KNOW, I READ THE RESEARCH PAPER THIS PRESENTATION LOOKED AT SOME OF THE ARTICLES, I HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A POSITIVE OUTLOOK ON THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON.

WITH THAT SAID, I THINK THERE'S ALWAYS A HUGE OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO DO MORE.

YOU KNOW WHAT WE NEED TO DO IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS, WHAT WE HAVE TO DO ON AN ONGOING BASIS, CLARIFYING ALL THE PRODUCTS AND SERVICES.

BUT IT'S CONCERNING, BUT I WONDER IF IT'S CIRCUMSTANTIAL IN TERMS OF ALL THE THINGS WE HAVE GOING ON FROM COVID TO THE CURRENT TIMES.

>> Jeff: AND THE WORLD GETS MORE COMPLICATED ALL THE TIME.

>> DEFINITELY.

THERE ARE SO MANY DECISIONS TO BE MADE WE ALMOST OVERCOMPLICATE THINGS AND TALKING WITH MY KIDS CHATTING ABOUT SIMPLICITY WHAT ARE THE BASICS, IF YOU GET THEM DONE, WITH THAT HAVE AN IMPACT OVER JUMPING ON THE NEXT PRODUCT OR JUMPING DOWN THE NEXT TREND AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN SHOWS GOING BACK TO THAT BASICS OF HOW TO HANDLE SAVINGS AND BUILDING HABITS IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.

>> Jeff: YOU HAVE LAUNCHED A FREE FINANCIAL COACHING PROGRAM.

HOW DOES THAT WORK?

>> SURE.

FOR OUR MEMBERS, AND ALSO PROSPECTS WE HAVE A FINANCIAL COACHING OPPORTUNITY WHERE YOU CAN COME IN AND WE JUST DO AN INTAKE WE LOOK AT YOUR CREDIT AND A LOT OF OTHER FACTORS IN TERMS HOW YOU DO BUSINESS AND WE ADDRESS MAJOR COMPONENTS IN TERMS OF ASSETS AND SAVINGS AND SPENDING HABITS WHEN YOU LOOK AT INSURANCE AND OTHER COMPONENTS.

THEN WE'LL BUILD A PLAN OR WORK THROUGH A PLAN WITH YOU TO ACHIEVE YOUR GOALS.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING I'VE LEARNED OVER TIME WE HAVE DONE PILOTING IS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT ARE PEOPLE'S GOALS BECAUSE THE GOALS ARE THE THINGS THAT HELP YOU TO EFFECT OR IMPACT YOUR FINAL DECISION MAKING.

>> Jeff: A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE SIMILAR GOALS, I WOULD THINK, IN TERMS OF GETTING A JOB, KEEPING A JOB, SAVING MONEY, AND ULTIMATELY BEING ABLE TO RETIRE AND NOT RUN OUT OF MONEY?

>> I THINK ON A LOT OF LEVELS WE ASSUME THAT AND THAT IS WHAT WE DO IN OUR INSTITUTION ALSO.

THOSE SHOULD BE THE BASICS.

IF YOU ARE PLANNING A WEDDING AND THE WEDDING IS THE THING IN FRONT OF YOU ALL OF A SUDDEN THAT BECOMES YOUR GOAL AND IT SHAPES HOW YOU MAKE DECISIONS AND WHAT YOU WILL DO NEXT.

IDEALLY INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT THE WEDDING WE TALK ABOUT RETIREMENT BUT THAT WED SOMETHING MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.

AND IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS DRIVING PEOPLE'S BEHAVIORS WHEN THEY ARE MAKING FINANCIAL DECISIONS.

I THINK THAT IS THE CRUX OF WHAT WE NEED TO ATTACK.

>> Jeff: WHAT ARE THE BIG CONCEPTS THAT YOU WOULD WANT ALL OF YOUR MEMBERS, MAYBE EVERY YOUNG PERSON COMING OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL TO HAVE SOME FAMILIARITY WITH?

>> I THINK THAT UNDERSTANDING THE BASICS OF CREDIT SCORES AND INTEREST RATES AND, I THINK MANAGING RISK IS AN IMPORTANT ASPECT WE DON'T TALK ABOUT NEARLY ENOUGH.

PROBABLY START WITH THE BASICS OF BUILDING GOOD HABITS.

WE TRY TO OVERCOMPLICATE THINGS SOMETIMES AND RATHER THAN LOOKING AT THAT AND TRYING TO GET THEM TO LEARN THE BIG CONCEPTS LET'S LOOK HOW DO YOU SET GOALS AND ADDRESSING YOUR BEHAVIORS AND YOUR HABITS SO YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH THINGS OVER TIME.

CONSISTENTLY, WHAT RESEARCH SHOWS IS THAT A CONSISTENT HABIT OVER TIME WILL TRUMP ANY MAJOR INITIATIVE THAT YOU CHOOSE TO JUMP DOWN.

I CAN TEACH YOU ABOUT ALL THE INTEREST RATES AND THE HOT INVESTING THINGS AND I WILL NOT MENTION NAMES BUT THE THINGS OUT THERE CATCHING PEOPLE'S ATTENTION BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY A SAVINGS IS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

AND THEN KROND THAT SYSTEMIC SAVINGS IT'S SETTING THE HABITS AND GOALS SO YOU CAN ACHIEVE YOUR OBJECTIVES.

>> Jeff: WHAT JUST JUMPED TO MIND AND IT'S OUT OF THE OLD SAVINGS AND LOAN WORLD, I THINK, THEY WERE CALLED MAYBE CHRISTMAS CLUBS OR SAVINGS CLUBS AND YOU WOULD HAVE A SPECIFIC GOAL.

AND SOMEBODY WOULD BE ABLE I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE MECHANISM WAS BUT YOU WOULD SAVE OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR AND THEN BE ABLE TO BUY WHATEVER IT WAS WHICH REINFORCES THE IDEAS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?

>> THOSE TYPES OF SAVING HABITS ARE IMPORTANT AND THIS IS AN INVESTMENT ADVICE BY ANY STRETCH BUT A ROTH IRA FOR A YOUNG INDIVIDUAL STARRING A JOB AND SAVING SOMETHING AS A LONG-TERM GOAL THAT CAN BE HAD AND THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, THAT MONEY HAS GROWN AND IT'S CONTINUING TO COMPOUND DEPENDING ON THE TYPES OF INVESTMENTS THAT YOU HAVE.

THAT SYSTEMIC SAVINGS, THE WHETHER IT BE THE HOLIDAY CLUB OR THE VACATION CLUB, I CITY THINK THOSE CONCEPTS ARE IMPORTANT.

AND PEOPLE ARE OVERWHELMED IN THIS DAY AND AGE.

WHEN WE KEEP IT SIMPLE THERE IS A HUGE AMOUNT OF IMPORTANCE TO THAT IN THE SENSE THAT PEOPLE ARE OVERWHELMED WITH FINANCIAL DECISIONS.

WE SEE ALL THE THINGS ON TV AND SOCIAL MEDIA, WE HAVE PEOPLE COMING AT US LEFT AND RIGHT.

I THINK FOLKS SHUT DOWN BECAUSE WE'VE HAD SITUATIONS WHERE WE'VE HAD SOMEONE FOR COACHING AND THEY SAID I DON'T KNOW LOOK AT MY ACCOUNTS AND HELP ME GET THROUGH THIS AND WE SAVE 700-900 NOT FROM SELLING PRODUCTS IT'S RESTRUCTURING WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH THEIR MONEY AND THEY REALIZE, WOW I DIDN'T REALIZE THIS MONEY WAS HERE OR I WAS SPENDING THIS MONEY.

NO ONE HAS TIME TO SLOW DOWN AND TO FOCUS ON THE BASICS.

>> Jeff: AND IT'S NOT LIKE IT IS A MORAL FAILING OF THAT INDIVIDUAL CUSTOMER OF YOURS.

THAT MAYBE SOMEBODY WHO IS AN EXPERT IN SOMETHING WORKING FOR JOHNS HOPKINS, MENTALLY THAT IS WHERE ALL THE BRAIN POWER GOES AND THEY DON'T WANT TO WORRY ABOUT THIS STUFF.

>> WE ARE AN INDEPENDENT ORGANIZATION FROM JOHNS HOPKINS BUT WE SERVE A LOT OF FOLKS WITH JOHNS HOPKINS.

WE LOVE THE FACT THAT WE CAN WORK WITH FOLKS FROM THE ENGINEERING STAFF THAT SUPPORTS THE COMMUNITIES THAT WE SUPPORT THE PROFESSORS, THE NURSES THE DOCTORS EVERYONE ACROSS THE BOARD.

BUT WHAT IS CONSISTENT IS THAT PEOPLE ARE BUSY AND THEY HAVE OTHER THINGS GOING ON IN THEIR LIVES.

NO MATTER HOW SMART YOU ARE THINGS TRIP YOU UP BECAUSE THERE'S TOO MUCH TO CONSUME.

I GO BACK TO LET'S GET BACK TO BASICS THE SAVINGS HABITS WHAT THE ARE THE GOALS AND THINGS YOU ENJOY.

ONE THING I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IS THE CONCEPT OF A CUP OF COFFEE WE SAY YOU'RE SPENDING SO MUCH IF YOU MULTIPLY THE CUPS OF COFFEE TIMES THE NUMBER OF DAYS AND TIMES THE MONTH AND YEARS IT IS A LOT OF MONEY IF THAT IS THE ONE THING SOMEONE ENJOYS DOING WHY WOULDN'T WE BUILD A BUDGET AROUND MAKING SURE THEY ARE ENJOYING WHAT THEY LIKE DOING.

YOU HAVE TO ENJOY LIFE.

YOU HAVE TO ENJOY THE SIMPLICITY OF LIFE.

>> Jeff: I'M THINKING ABOUT SOME OF THE TRAPS OUT THERE.

AND WE WERE DISCUSSING BUILDING A SAVINGS HABIT FOR SOMEBODY.

THE OPPOSITE RISK IS ESPECIALLY YOUNG PERSON COMING OUT OF SCHOOL YOU ARE GETTING YOUR FIRST JOB THEY ARE THROWING CREDIT CARD OFFERS AT YOU AND IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW FAST YOU CAN GET IN TROUBLE, AND THAT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY IT BACK AND THOSE INTEREST RATE NUMBERS WHICH ARE VERY HIGH NUMBERS, THE OPPOSITE OF THE POWER OF COMPOUNDING IS HOW FAST YOUR DEBT CAN GO UP.

>> .

>> MOST DEFINITELY.

THAT IS A CHALLENGE.

CREDIT UNIONS CANNOT HAVE THE SAME HIGH INTEREST RATES THAT OTHER FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS CAN CARRY THAT IS A PLUG FOR CREDIT UNIONS WE ARE STATUTORILY LIMITED TO THE INTEREST RATES THAT WE CAN PUT OUT THERE.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO SEE THE 26%, 30% TYPE INTEREST RATES THAT ARE OUT THERE.

A CREDIT UNION IS A GOOD OPTION FROM THAT STANDPOINT.

THERE'S TWO PIECES TO THAT.

THERE'S THE YOUNGER GENERATION BUT THERE'S THE PARENTS.

BECAUSE PARENTS DON'T TALK ABOUT MONEY WITH THEIR KIDS IN THE WAY THEY NEED TO.

THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEMS AND THE CHALLENGES THEY'VE HAD.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE START MAKING THIS A GENERATIONAL CONVERSATION I CAN'T JUST TALK ABOUT THE GEN Z FOLKS WHEN THEY HAVE HABITS DEMONSTRATED IN THEIR LIFE.

MY PARENTS NEVER HAD THESE ISSUES.

I THINK YOUR PARENTS MIGHT HAVE HAD THESE ISSUES THEY ARE NOT TELLING YOU ABOUT IT.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE TRANSPARENT.

>> Jeff: PARENTS MIGHT HAVE BEEN LIVING AT A TIME WHEN PENSIONS ARE A BIGGER DEAL THAN THEY ARE TODAY.

BEFORE WE GO TELL US ABOUT THE CREDIT UNION BUSINESS.

THERE ARE SO MANY PLACES INCREASINGLY ON-LINE PLACES TO GET FINANCIAL SERVICES.

HOW IS YOUR NICHE DOING OVERALL?

>> I'M EXCITED ABOUT THAT THANKS FOR ASKING.

I THINK THE FOCUS ON FINANCIAL WELLNESS AND COACHING IN PARTICULAR, BECAUSE I BELIEVE THERE IS A LOT OF PLACES TO GET FINANCIAL EDUCATION.

BUT WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH THIS WE WANT TO LOOK AT THE OVERALL FINANCIAL WELLNESS AND I THINK HAVING A COACH OR SOMEONE ALONG FOR THE RIDE TO HELP YOU, WHEN I THINK ABOUT IT MAKING THE RIGHT DECISIONS AT THE RIGHT TIMES.

I CAN GIVE YOU THE EDUCATION BUT AT THE TIME WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING TO MAKE A DECISION CAN I BRING SOMETHING TO THE TABLE THAT INFORMS YOU HOW TO BEST MAKE THAT DECISION WHETHER PURCHASING A HOME.

SO I LOVE THE PROGRAM WE'VE LAUNCHED WITH THE CHIEF FINANCIAL COACHING.

AND WE ARE DOING WELL WITH GETTING OUR MEMBERS ONBOARD AND HELPING THEM TO IMPROVE THEIR FINANCIAL LIVES.

>> Jeff: MEMBERSHIP OF CREDIT UNIONS I RECALL USED TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE STRICTLY LIMITED TO AN AFFILIATION WITH THE INSTITUTION AN EMPLOYEE OF HOPKINS A STUDENT AT HOPKINS.

HOW DOES IT WORK TODAY?

>> WE HAVE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES WE HAVE JOHNS HOPKINS THE EMPLOYEES OF THE UNIVERSITY.

AND EMPLOYEES OF THE OVERALL HEALTH SYSTEM AND THERE IS A LOT THE CATEGORIES THERE.

WE SERVE KENNEDY KRIEGER AND OTHER INSTITUTIONS BUT FOR OUR BUSINESS WE DECIDED TO STAY FOCUSED ON THOSE COMMUNITIES.

>> Jeff: THANKS TO Mr.

O'NEILL AND THAT IS "STATE CIRCLE" FOR THIS WEEK.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING WE'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE MONDAY EVENING AT 7:00 P.M.

FOR "DIRECT CONNECTION".

[♪♪]