THIS PROGRAM IS MADE BY MPT TO ENRICH THE DIVERSE COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT OUR STATE AND IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF OUR MEMBERS.

THANK YOU.

CONNECTING MARYLANDERS TO THEIR GOVERNMENT, THIS IS "STATE CIRCLE".

>> Jeff: WELCOME TO "STATE CIRCLE".

COMING UP ON OUR PROGRAM THIS WEEK IT MAYBE THE STATE'S CLOSEST RACE FOR THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

AND A NEW BOOK ON THE LIVES OF PIONEERING SPORTS WRITERS.

FIRST THIS WEEK, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF BALLOTS NOW IN THE MAIL AND POSSIBLE SIGNS OF A SHIFT IN THE U.S. SENATE RACE.

JEFF BARKER WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT FOR "THE BALTIMORE SUN" JOINS US FOR THE ROUNDS TABLE.

AND WE HAVE POLLING TO LOOK AT THERE IS A NEW POLL FROM EMERSON COLLEGE THAT HAS ANGELA ALSOBROOKS SEVEN POINTS AHEAD OF LARRY HOGAN IN THE RACE FOR THE U.S. SENATE.

IT WAS JUST ABOUT 10 DAYS EARLIER THAT A POLL HAD HER AHEAD BY FIVE AND MAYBE 10 DAYS BEFORE THAT THERE WAS AN AARP SPONSORED POLL THAT HAD THE CANDIDATES TIED.

I DID NOT PUT IT ON THE SCREEN, IT WAS A PARTISAN POLLING FIRM THIS WEEK HAD ANGELA ALSOBROOKS AHEAD OF HOGAN HEAD-TO-HEAD BY 15 POINTS.

CAN YOU LOOK AT ALL THIS AND SAY IT IS A TREND OR TOO SOON TO TELL?

>> I MEAN, I THINK IT'S TOO SOON TO TELL.

HOWEVER, I KNOW IT WOULD CAUSE SOME CONCERN IN THE HOGAN CAMP.

I THINK THE REASON IS THAT IF ANYTHING, SHE, I THINK, HAD MORE UPSIDE IN THE RACE AS THE RACE MOVED ALONG BECAUSE SHE WAS NOT NEARLY AS WELL-KNOWN.

HE WAS IN OFFICE STATE-WIDE OFFICE FOR EIGHT YEARS.

AND SO MY THINKING ALWAYS WAS THAT AS THE CAMPAIGN GOT CLOSER TO NOVEMBER FIFTH, THAT SHE MIGHT BE ELEVATED JUST BECAUSE HER MESSAGE WOULD SPREAD MORE PEOPLE WOULD GET TO KNOW HER.

THAT'S PROBABLY WORRISOME FOR THE HOGAN PEOPLE.

AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK THERE IS A CHANCE FOR THINGS TO CHANGE BECAUSE WE STILL ARE A WAYS OUT EVEN THOUGH EARLY VOTING STARTS SOON.

>> Jeff: ANYBODY WITH A TELEVISION IN MARYLAND HAS SEEN THE ADS NOT ON PUBLIC TV BUT COMMERCIAL TELEVISION THE ADS ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE AND THE ALSOBROOKS CAMPAIGN I THINK, DONE A PRETTY CONVINCING JOB OF ARGUING THAT LARRY HOGAN IS, IN FACT, A REPUBLICAN AND THEN PUTTING UP PICTURES OF TRUMP AND MITCH MCCONNELL AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE STRATEGY?

>> YEAH.

YOU KNOW IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THEY SAY WE HAVE NOT GONE NEGATIVE.

AND I THINK WHAT THEY'VE DONE IS GONE NEGATIVE WITHOUT GOING NEGATIVE.

HOGAN IN HIS OWN WORDS SAYING I AM A LIFELONG REPUBLICAN.

AND YOU'VE PROBABLY SEEN THAT OVER AND OVER HOGAN TALKING ABOUT HIS LOYALTY AND HE IS REPUBLICAN AND HIS DAD WAS A REPUBLICAN.

ET CETERA.

SO IT'S PRETTY CLEAR, YOU KNOW, WE WANT THE VOTERS TO KNOW THAT LARRY HOGAN IS A REPUBLICAN.

BUT THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO IT WITHOUT BEING UNSEEMLY WHERE YOU HAVE DIRE VOICE AND MUSIC AND THEY LOOK ALL NEGATIVE AND THEY HAVE NOT DONE THAT.

AND YET THEY ARE GETTING THE MESSAGE ACROSS THAT THEY WANT TO.

>> Jeff: THEY ARE FOCUSING ON ABORTION ACCESS AND HOGAN'S RECORD AS GOVERNOR ON THAT.

AND OBVIOUSLY ABORTION WAS NOT CURTAILED IN MARYLAND WHEN HE WAS GOVERNOR BUT YOU'VE WRITTEN ABOUT SOME OF THE BATTLES THAT TOOK PLACE?

>> IT'S ONE OF THESE QUESTIONS WHERE THE VOTERS HAVE TO DECIDE HOW SIGNIFICANT IS IT THAT HOGAN AS GOVERNOR, VETOED A BILL THAT WOULD HAVE IMPROVED ABORTION ACCESS BY ALLOWING DIFFERENT LEVELS OF MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS TO PERFORM ABORTIONS.

SO DOES THAT MATTER?

BECAUSE NOW YOU HAVE HOGAN WHO I'LL USE THE NICE WORD HE HAS AMENDED HIS POSITION HE'S EVOLVED AND MUCH MORE FAVORABLE TOWARD ABORTION RIGHTS.

THE VOTERS HAVE TO DECIDE SOLAR LAR NOW IS LAR IS SAYING HE IS PRO-CHOICE AND DID IT MATTER HE HAD A DIFFERENT POSITION YEARS AGO.

>> Jeff: IF IN TERMS OF THE ADS HOGAN SIDE IS RUNNING, I DON'T SEE MUCH IN THE WAY OF DIRECT ATTACKS ON ANGELA ALSOBROOKS.

THE LAST THING THE MOST INTERESTING THING I SAW AT OUR TAPING TIME WAS ON TWITTER AND IT IS A LIST OF COMMITMENTS FROM Mr. HOGAN, COMMITTING TO BE A SWING VOTE, INDEPENDENT, STANDING WITH ALLIES, AND PROTECTING ABORTION RIGHTS.

WHICH SOUNDS LIKE HE'S PLAYING DEFENSE A BIT.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN PLAYING DEFENSE BUT ALSO, I MEAN, HE BELIEVES VERY STRONGLY AS YOU KNOW, HIS NUMBER ONE MESSAGE HAS ALWAYS BEEN HIS BRAND HAS ALWAYS BEEN I AM A BIPARTISAN GUY, YOU KNOW, NOT DEVOTED TO EITHER THE REPUBLICANS OR THE DEMOCRATS.

I PUT MY STATE OVER MY PARTY ET CETERA.

HE IS HAMMERING THAT HOME.

AND IT IS A MESS.

YOU SEE FOCUS GROUPS AND PEOPLE LOVE THAT MESSAGE.

IT'S JUST A QUESTION IS THAT ENOUGH FOR HIM?

AND HE WAS A VERY POPULAR GOVERNOR.

AND I THINK HE STILL IS POPULAR BUT THE QUESTION IS IS THAT ENOUGH IN A YEAR WHERE ANGELA ALSOBROOKS IS SAYING LOOK, THE SENATE MAJORITY IS AT STAKE HERE.

DO YOU WANT TO VOTE FOR SOMEBODY WHO IS A REPUBLICAN?

>> Jeff: I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN ANSWER THIS, BUT IS THIS THE RACE?

EVERYBODY SAYS THIS IS THE TIPPING POINT.

IS IT REALLY?

>> YES, THEY ALL SAY THAT.

>> Jeff: 10 OTHER STATES WHERE THEY'RE SAYING THAT.

>> IT'S FUNNY, TOO, IN MY E-MAIL RELEASES FROM SENATE RACES AROUND THE COUNTRY IT IS AMAZING EVERY RACE IS TIED EVERYONE IS TIED.

AND BY READING THAT I'M ASSUMING THAT THE EXPERTS HAVE SAID IF YOU SAY YOUR RACE IS TIED THEN MONEY WILL COME IN MORE EASILY THAN IF YOU ARE AHEAD OR EVEN IF YOU ARE BEHIND.

I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE RACE.

I THINK DEMOCRATS HOPE THIS WOULD BE THE RACE BECAUSE IF IT COMES DOWN TO THIS ONE THAT MEANS THEY HAVE DONE WELL IN OTHERS.

BECAUSE DEMOCRATS REALLY ARE PLAYING DEFENSE.

>> Jeff: YOU WROTE RECENTLY HOW INVESTED GOVERNOR WES MOORE IS IN SECURING AN ALSOBROOKS VICTORY.

IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE HAVING A DEMOCRAT WIN A SENATE SEAT IN THE BLUE STATE OF MARYLAND IS MUCH OF A FEATHER IN SOMEBODY'S CAP, BUT HE'S 100% FOR THIS?

>> YEAH, I THINK IT'S NOT A HUGE FEATHER IN HIS CAP BUT LOOK AT THE REVERSE OF THAT.

IF HE LOSES, IT'S WOULD LOOK REALLY BAD AND THERE ARE SO MANY REASONS I THOUGHT ABOUT WHY HE IS SO INVESTED HE IS RAISING MONEY FOR A SUPER PAC ANTI-HOGAN SUPER PAC WHICH SURPRISED PEOPLE HE WOULD GO TO THAT EXTENT TO TRY TO GET ANGELA ALSOBROOKS ELECTED.

I REALLY THINK IT'S PART OF HIS LEGACY.

IT'S A POLITICAL TEST FOR HIM.

AND AT THE SAME TIME, MAYBE THERE IS A LITTLE RIVALRY BETWEEN HE AND LARRY HOGAN, BECAUSE IT IS A UNIQUE DYNAMIC.

YOU'VE GOT A GOVERNOR BY PROXY GOING AGAINST HIS PREDECESSOR AND THEY MIGHT NOT ADMIT IT.

WES MOORE TOLD ME THERE IS NO RIVALRY BUT I THINK THERE MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT.

>> Jeff: LET'S TALK FOR A SECOND OF HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE RACES IN MARYLAND THREE OPEN SEATS IN A MINUTE WE'LL HEAR FROM APRIL MCCLAIN DELANEY THE DEMOCRAT IN THE SIXTH DISTRICT PART OF MONTGOMERY COUNTY AND THEN OUT INTO WESTERN MARYLAND.

THE GONZALEZ BOWL THAT WE MENTIONED HAD AN OVERSMALL SAMPLE SIZE BUT INDICATED THE REPUBLICAN COULD BE AHEAD BY TWO POINTS.

THAT SEEMS TO BE THE HOTTEST HOUSE RACE IN MARYLAND.

>> YEAH, I MEAN TRONE DIDN'T WIN BY MUNICIPAL TWO YEARS AGO.

AND HE WAS AN INCUMBENT WITH A TON OF MONEY AS WE KNOW.

I KNOW DEMOCRATS WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT I'VE EXPECTED THAT WOULD BE CLOSE AND I THINK WHEN THE MAP GOT DRAWN BY DEMOCRATS DURING REDISTRICTING THEY FIGURE THIS WAS GOING TO BE THE CLOSE RACE.

>> Jeff: YOU CAN READ JEFF BARKER'S WORK AT BALTIMORE SUN.COM.

JEFF, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> MY PLEASURE, JEFF, THANK YOU.

>> Jeff: WE ARE SPEAKING WITH THE CANDIDATES FOR MARYLAND'S OPEN SEATEDS IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

JOINING US IS APRIL MCCLAIN DELANEY, WHO IS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE IN THE SIXTH DISTRICT.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE LIFT THESE LOCAL ELECTIONS AND SO MANY OF OUR LOCAL STATIONS AND OUR LOCAL PAPERS DON'T HAVE ENOUGH JOURNALISM OUTLETS JOURNALISTS COVERING THEM I COMMEND YOU FOR DOING SO.

>> Jeff: WE APPRECIATE THAT.

WE'LL MAKE GOOD USE OF OUR OUTLET HERE WHICH INCLUDES TV STATIONS ACROSS YOUR DISTRICT.

BUT GIVE US A LITTLE BACKGROUND TELL US ABOUT YOURSELF AND WHY YOU'RE RUNNING.

>> I AM AN IDENTIFY OWE POTATO FARMER'S DAUGHTER AND I'M RUNNING AS A COMMON SENSE, COMMON GROUND CANDIDATE THAT IS DEDICATED TO GETTING THINGS DONE.

I THINK THERE'S TOO MUCH TOXICITY AND TOO MUCH PARTISANSHIP AND DIVISION IN THIS COUNTRY AND IT'S TEARING US APART AT THE SEAMS AND WE NEED TO FOCUS ON MAKING ENDS MEET FOR WORKING FAMILIES LIFTING UP THE RIGHTS OF OUR DAUGHTERS AND COMING TOGETHER IN COMMUNITY THAT'S WHY I'M RUNNING.

>> Jeff: YOUR BIOSAYS FORMER TELECOMMUNICATIONS COUNSEL IN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

I MAY NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT.

>> LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY BACKGROUND BECAUSE IT INFORMS WHO I AM AND WHY I THINK I WILL BE A GREAT REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE SIXTH DISTRICT.

WENT TO SCHOOL ON SCHOLARSHIP TO GEORGETOWN LAW CENTER.

STARTED AS A BROADCASTING CABLE ATTORNEY AND WENT ON AFTER I HAD MY FIRST CHILD I HAVE FOUR DAUGHTERS FROM 17 TO 31, I WORKED AT AN ENTREPRENEURIAL SATELLITE COMPANY IN ROCKVILLE AND HELPED TO FOUND COMMON SENSE MEDIA.

THE WASHINGTON DIRECTOR OF THE DC OFFICE AND IT IS THE LEADING NONPROFIT HOW MEDIA IMPACTS KIDS' HEALTH AND SAFETY.

PRIVACY, ANXIETY AND REALLY WORKING ON DIGITAL CITIZENSHIP.

AND THEN I WENT INTO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION BECAUSE ONE OF MY BIG ISSUES WAS DURING COVID THE DIGITAL DIVIDE, RURAL BROADBAND AND HOW WE HAVE TO CONNECT ALL AMERICANS TO HIGH SPEED AFFORDABLE INTERNET.

AND HOW WE HAVE TO PUT BUMPER AND SAFEGUARDS ON TECHNOLOGY HOW THESE PLATFORMS INFORM OUR KIDS.

I DID TECH AND A.I.

POLICY RELATED TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

AND I'M REALLY VERY, VERY PROUD OF MY WORK.

AND I ALSO DID A LOT OF OUR INTERNATIONAL WORK IN TERMS OF CYBERSECURITY AND OVERSEEING THE FIRST RESPONDER NETWORK.

>> YOUR HUSBAND HELD THIS SEAT FOR THREE TERMS I'M WONDERING HAD AN UP CLOSE VIEW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A MEMBER OF CONGRESS DID THAT ATTRACT YOU TO RUNNING FOR CONGRESS?

OR MAYBE WAS THERE A LITTLE BIT OF THE OPPOSITE SOMETHING THAT MAYBE YOU HAD TO OVERCOME TO GET INTO THIS RACE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I HAVE SPENT ALMOST 30 YEARS AS A LAWYER AND AS A BUSINESS PERSON AND A NONPROFIT ADVOCATE ACTUALLY WORKING WITH THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION, REGULATORY AGENCIES AND COMMONWEALTH TO GET PIECES OF LEGISLATION OR REGULATION THAT HELP BOTH PROMOTE INNOVATION, BUT PUTTING THESE BUMPERS ON BIG TECH.

I KNEW WASHINGTON AND THE HILL BEFORE HE DID.

BECAUSE HE WAS A ELECTRICIAN'S SON THAT WENT INTO BUSINESS.

YOU KNOW BEING THE SPOUSE WHEN HE FIRST DECIDED TO RUN, I REALLY EMBRACED IT THAT I HAD MY OWN PROFESSIONAL LIFE BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO BRING BOTH SIDES TOGETHER.

WE DID A LOT OF BIPARTISAN WORK WHILE HE WAS IN CONGRESS.

AND I GOT TO KNOW BOTH THE CONGRESSIONAL FAMILIES.

AND THEN WHEN I WAS IN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION CONGRESSMAN TRONE STEPPED BACK TO RUN FOR SENATE AND HE WAS A FANTASTIC MEMBER OF YOU KNOW IT HELPED HAVING THAT INSIGHT, HAVING TRAVELED FROM ALLEGHENY ALL THE WAY TO MONTGOMERY COUNTY IT IS A HUGE DISTRICT, RED, BLUE, TECH CORRIDOR AND AGRICULTURE, SUBURBAN URBAN A MICROCOZUM OF AMERICA IF YOU DO THINGS IN THIS DISTRICT YOU CAN DO THEM ANYWHERE.

>> Jeff: WHAT IS THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE WITH YOUR OPPONENT THAT YOU WANT VIEWERS TO KNOW ABOUT.

>> I AM A COMMON SENSE DEMOCRAT WANTING TO GET THINGS DONE FOR FAMILIES.

NEIL PARROT, ALTHOUGH YOU KNOW I DON'T KNOW HIM VERY WELL, PEOPLE SAY HE IS A PERSONABLE MAN HE IS EXCREDIBLY EXTREMIST IN HIS VOTING RECORD AND WHAT HE STOOD FOR ALL OF HIS LIFE.

SO MUCH SO THAT HE WOULD BE HIGHLY INEFFECTIVE AS A MEMBER OF CONGRESS.

IN 2019 HE WAS DEEMED THE LEAST AFFECTIVE HOUSE MEMBER IN THE STATE HOUSE IN MARYLAND AND HE FOCUSED ON ISSUES LIKE CULTURE ISSUES LIKE TATTOOING, HIV POSITIVE PEOPLE.

ATTACKING THEM.

DENYING LIFE-SAVING MEDICINE.

ABORTION BANS EVEN IN THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER, RAPE OR INCEST.

HIS VOTING RECORD FROM EARLY ON SUPPORTS THAT.

AND THEN ALSO JUST LOOKING AT WEAKENING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE LAWS.

WHEN I LOOK AT THOSE TYPE OF ISSUES AND I AM A MOTHER OF FOUR DAUGHTERS SO THAT IMPACTS ME.

I SIT THERE AND I SAY WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER AND FOCUS ON FAMILIES AND NOT ON THESE EXTREME ISSUES WHICH DIVIDE US.

>> Jeff: IS THERE AN ISSUE WHERE MAYBE YOU STAND APART TO SOME DEGREE FROM OTHER DEMOCRATS?

>> I THINK THAT I THERE IS A, YOU KNOW, A BIG TENT IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR THAT MATTER.

BUT I THINK I STAND WITH THOSE DEMOCRATS WHO WANT TO GET THINGS DONE.

PEOPLE SAY ARE YOU GOING TO BE IN THE PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

I WILL BE IN ANY CAUCUS THAT WILL GET PEOPLE TO FOCUS ON IMMIGRATION, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, YOU KNOW, BUMPERS AND SAFEGUARDS ON BIG TECH AND CODIFYING ROE VS. WADE.

THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT I CARE ABOUT.

AM I DIFFERENT?

I BRING A WORLD OF EXPERIENCE, YOU KNOW.

I'VE LIVED NOT A LONG LIFE, I'M YOUNG ENOUGH LIFE TO KNOW THAT NONE OF US HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS.

WE ALL HAVE TO LISTEN AND MEET PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE BUT YOU HAVE TO ROLL UP YOUR SLEEVES AND GET STUFF DONE AND WE ARE ON FIRE RIGHT NOW.

>> Jeff: LAST QUESTION AS YOU ROLL YOUR SLEEVES AND TRAVEL AROUND THE DISTRICT WHICH HAS PARTS NEAR WASHINGTON METRO STOPS AND PARTS OUT WEST THAT ARE CLOSER TO PITTSBURGH, IS THERE ONE QUESTION THAT YOU GET FROM VOTERS THAT SPANS THE DISTRICT?

WHAT DO THEY CARE ABOUT?

>> WHAT SPANS THE DISTRICT THEY CARE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SHOW UP AND HEAR THEM.

PARROT TALKS I LIVE OUTSIDE OF THE DISTRICT LINES HAVE MOVED.

THE DISTRICT LINES HAVE MOVED.

I HAVEN'T MOVED.

BUT THE IMPORTANT THING IS LIKE CONGRESSMAN TRONE HE SHOW UP EVERYWHERE.

ALLEGHENY, GARRET, MONTGOMERY, YOU LISTEN TO HAVE AND HAVE GOOD CONSTITUENT SERVICES AND YOU ARE ABLE TO ALWAYS HEAR ABOUT THEM.

BUT THE BIGGEST ISSUES ARE INFRASTRUCTURE DRIVING INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT WORKING ON OUR ROADS.

INFLATION.

SOLVING THIS ASYLUM MESS AND IMMIGRATION I BELIEVE WE HAVE TO SECURE THE BORDER AND DEAL WITH THE ASYLUM MESS WHILE HAVING COMPASSION.

AND LOOKING AT HOW WE STEM THE ASSAULT ON WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

THOSE ARE BIG PRIORITIES.

THE NUMBER ONE IS THAT YOU SHOW UP FOR THEM AND YOU LISTEN TO THEM.

AND THAT IS WHAT EVERYONE HAS SAID ACROSS THE BOARD.

>> Jeff: APRIL MCCLAIN DELANEY IS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE IN THE SIXTH DISTRICT THANK YOU FOR MAKING TIME FOR US.

>> THANK YOU, JEFF.

>> Jeff: MORE OF OUR CANDIDATE INTERVIEWS CAN BE FOUND AT MPT.ORG/VOTE 2024 AND WE HAVE EXTENDED AN INVITATION TO THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN THE SIXTH DISTRICT AS WELL.

NOW ON THE BOOK BEAT.

CHARLES ROBINSON ON THE LIVES OF BARRIER BREAKING SPORTS WRITERS.

>> I'M ALWAYS DELIGHTED TO HAVE MY FRIEND WAYNE DAWKINS TO TALK TO AND THIS TIME WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT A NEW BOOK HE HAS WRITTEN ABOUT SAM LACY AND WENDELL SMITH.

A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MARYLAND WILL KNOW THE NAME SAM LACY.

BECAUSE HE WAS A SPORTS WRITER FOR THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN NEWSPAPER AND I WILL DATE MYSELF I USED TO DELIVER THE AFRO-AMERICAN NEWSPAPERS AND ONE OF THE THINGS MANY OF MY CUSTOMERS SAID WHAT IS SAM TALKING ABOUT IN THE NEWSPAPERS?

LET'S GIVE A BRIEF HISTORY OF SAM LACY AND HIS SPORT WRITING AND HOW HE WAS COVERING BOTH NEGRO LEAGUES AND THE INTRODUCTION OF JACKIE ROBINSON INTO BASEBALL.

>> OKAY.

WELL, SAM LACY BORN IN WASHINGTON D.C., AND STARTED HIS NEWSPAPER RING AS A CHILD.

WORKING FOR WASHINGTON PAPERS AND THEN EVENTUALLY PEOPLE IN BALTIMORE KNOW SAM LACY BECAUSE 65 YEARS OF HIS CAREER WAS SPENT WITH THE [AUDIO INTERRUPTION] AND WORKED FOR THE CHICAGO DEFENDER.

OR REMARKABLE THING I FOUND OUT HE SPENT LIKE THE BRIEFEST MOMENT AT [AUDIO INTERRUPTION] IN THE EARLY 40s THAT BECAME THE "CHICAGO SUN-TIMES".

>> I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER SAM LACY AS THE WRITER WHO KIND OF CHRONICLED THE EARLY DAYS IN THE NEGRO LEAGUE AND BEGAN TO QUESTION WHY BLACK PLAYERS WERE NOT ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES OF BASEBALL.

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.

BECAUSE THAT WAS THE CAMPAIGN HE AND WENDELL SMITH WAGED.

AND I WANT TO ADD TO THAT, THE REASON WHY I DID THIS BOOK, I WAS ASKED BY PAUL IF ANYTHINGLE MAN WAS A UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT.

A SCHOLAR.

HE EDITED HENRY LEWIS GATES' TWO HISTORIES OF BLACK AMERICA.

AND HE WAS EDITING A SERIES OF BOOKS PUBLISHED BY THE BRITISH BASED COMPANY AND SAM LACY WAS ON THE LIST.

HE SAID WOULD YOU WRITE HIS BIOGRAPHY?

AND I SAID SURE.

AND I COUNTEROFFERED AND I SAID LET'S MAKE IT SAM LACY AND WENDELL SMITH, BECAUSE THEY WERE COMPETING SPORTS JOURNALISTS THEY WERE NOT ADVERSARIES BECAUSE THEY WERE FRIENDLY.

BUT THEY WERE ON PARALLEL TRACKS WITH THE SAME CAUSE.

AND YES, THEY QUESTIONED WHY BLACK BASEBALL PLAYERS COULD NOT PLAY IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES.

NOW, WHAT HAPPENED, WAS THAT BLACK PLAYERS WERE IN MAJOR AND PROFESSIONAL LEAGUE BASEBALL.

GOING BACK TO THE LATE 1800'S BUT THEY WERE DRIVEN OUT IN THE EARLY 1900'S.

AND WHEN THE BLACK SOX SCANDAL OCCURRED IN 1919 INVOLVING THE WHITE SOX ACCUSED OF THROWING THE WORLD SERIES MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL BROUGHT IN A FEDERAL JUDGE TO SERVE AS THE BASEBALL COMMISSIONER TO CLEAN UP THE SPORT.

BUT WHAT HE DID WITH THE OWNERS, THEY HAD THIS GENTLEMEN'S AGREEMENT UNWRITTEN GENTLEMEN'S AGREEMENT THAT AFRICAN-AMERICANS WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO PLAY PROFESSIONAL OR MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL AND THAT BAN LASTED A SOLID 20 YEARS.

AND LACY AND WENDELL SMITH WERE DETERMINED TO ERASE THAT IF IT MEANT LOBBYING, SHAMING, PRESENTING THE EVIDENCE THAT IT WAS WHAT THEY WERE DOING WAS ABSURD.

1944, IT'S NOW WE'RE DEEP INTO WORLD WAR II AND THE TIDE HAS CHANGED AND NOW AMERICA'S WINNING.

AND HAPPY CHANDLER PROMISED BLACK SPORTS WRITERS AND I BELIEVE LACY WAS IN THE ROOM WITH WENDELL SMITH AND OTHERS AND SAID IF NEGRO BOYS CAN FIGHT FOR US THEY CAN PLAY BASEBALL, TOO.

>> Jeff: LET'S SHIFT GEARS FOR A MINUTE AND TALK ABOUT WENDELL SMITH.

BECAUSE SMITH IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN SAM LACY.

HE IS YOUNGER.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS IN YOUR BOOK YOU CHRONICLE HOW WHEN HE GETS TO THE PITTSBURGH COURIER ONE OF THE NATION'S TOP THREE BLACK NEWSPAPERS IN AMERICA.

>> CAN THE DEFENDER AND THE AFRO.

>> AND HE BEGINS TO HE DOESN'T GET A PRESS PASS BUT HE DECIDES TO HANGOUT AT THE HOTEL WITH THESE VISITING TEAMS TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HIS FIRST OF ALL METHODOLOGY, AND WHY HE WENT THERE?

>> HE WAS SOMEONE HE HAD THIS KIND OF TEMPERAMENT WHERE HE WOULD PERSEVERE.

HIS WRITING COULD BE FIERY BUT HE WAS A PERSONABLE INDIVIDUAL.

SO HE SAID OKAY I'M GOING TO DO DO MY OWN POLL.

I'M GOING TO INTERVIEW EVERY PLAYER AND COACH AND MANAGER ON THESE MAJOR LEAGUE TEAMS AS THEY ARE COMING IN HE IS BASED IN PITTSBURGH.

SO AT LEAST HE WAS GETTING THE NATIONAL LEAGUE TEAMS THAT ARE COMING IN TOWN TO PLAY THE PIRATES.

HE HUNG OUTSIDE OF THE HOTEL.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

HE DIDN'T HAVE A PRESS CREDENTIALS TO GET IN THE LOCKER ROOM HE HUNG OUT IN THE HOTEL.

AND HE SAID WELL, ARE YOU WOULD YOU BE OKAY WITH BLACK PLAYERS PLAYING MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL?

AND A NUMBER OF THESE MANAGERS AND PLAYERS SAID YES, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM.

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.

OTHERS THAT SAID NO.

BUT MANY OF THEM SAID YES ON THE RECORD.

BY NAME.

THESE PLAYERS CAN PLAY A NUMBER OF THEM CAN REALLY PLAY.

AND BESIDES, MANY OF THESE WHITE PLAYERS WERE PLAYING AGAINST NEGRO LEAGUE PLAYERS IN BARNSTORMING EXHIBITIONS.

WITH THE NEGRO PLAYERS WINNING TWO-THIRDS OF THE TIME.

>> THE BOOK CENTERS ON THE EMERGENCE OF JACKIE ROBINSON.

>> YES.

>> I THINK A LOT OF FOLKS WHO FOLLOW BASEBALL, YOU KNOW, IT'S HISTORY.

BECAUSE THESE DAYS, THERE'S ACTUALLY A JACKIE ROBINSON DAY IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL AND EVERYBODY WEARS NUMBER 42.

>> EXACTLY.

>> THE OTHER PART OF THAT IS JACKIE ROBINSON WASN'T NECESSARILY THE GREATEST NEGRO LEAGUE PLAYER BECAUSE HE DID PLAY IN THE NEGRO LEAGUES BUT HE HAD SOMETHING SPECIAL.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

YES.

JACKIE ROBINSON WAS NOT THE GREATEST NEGRO LEAGUE PROSPECT.

BUT HE HAD ALL THESE ELEMENTS THAT APPEARED TO MAKE HIM -- THAT MADE HIM THE MAN TO BREAK THE COLOR LINE.

BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A TOUGH CLIMB.

EVEN MANY OF THE TOP NEGRO LEAGUE PLAYERS SAID I DON'T THINK I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT BECAUSE I MIGHT HAVE TO GO UPSIDE SOMEBODY'S HEAD WITH A BAT WHEN THEY TREAT ME THE WRONG WAY.

SO SOME OF THEM WERE RELUCTANT BUT WHAT JACKIE ROBINSON HAD GOING FOR HIM.

HE WENT TO COLLEGE.

HE WAS A FOUR-SPORT MULTIATHLETE, FOOTBALL, BASEBALL, TRACK, BASKETBALL.

BASEBALL PROBABLY WASN'T HIS BEST SPORT BUT HE WAS GOOD AT IT.

>> Jeff: OUR THANKS TO WAYNE DAWKINS AND CHARLES ROBINSON WE'RE BACK MONDAY WITH "DIRECT CONNECTION" YOUR CHANCE TO ASK THE EXPERTS MONDAY EVENING LIVE AT 7:00 P.M. FROM ALL OF US AT MPT THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE MONDAY.