Support for Arkansas Week provided by the Arkansas Democrat Gazette.

The Arkansas Times and KAR FM 89.

Hello again everyone.

Thanks very much for joining us abortion.

Stand your ground covid restrictions executive authority a new label for health care will get to as much of it as we can first among the cruelties imposed by the pandemic, the loss of shelter, the coronavirus and its impact on incomes did not create the problem, but it made it measurably worse in the best of times.

Consumer advocates say tenants in Arkansas have precious few, if any protections.

The landlords lobby disagrees, and in previous sessions it has defeated legislation to strengthen renters rights.

The author of that legislation and this years version joins us Now Representative Jimmy Gazaway of Paragould his bill, now before the House Insurance and Commerce Committee.

And its chairman is with this as well.

Representative Mark Lowry of Maumelle joins us.

Also, gentlemen, thank you very much.

Mr gassaway.

I will start with you.

I'll let you open with for your bill and also if the opposition once again seems to be pretty formidable.

Your response.

Do you have a shot at it this year?

Well, I think we're in much better position than we were last year.

If you look at the committee structure this year, given where we were last year, I think the Committee House Insurance and Commerce is much more favorable to us this year.

And I also think that the public awareness about the issue has grown.

And so I think with those two things.

But both the committee favorableness that we have this year along with just the public awareness and also the awareness of just more members in the legislature about how far behind we are in Arkansas with respect to basic minimum standards of habitability.

You know, we've been through this debate before, so I feel like that we're in a lot better position this year than we were last year.

Well, in fact, has Covid made your position more more favorable?

Well, I think that I can see that going both ways.

You know in some respects Covid has really intensified the impact on renters.

And there the issue of homelessness and them being evicted because they don't have a job they can't pay their rent.

They become evicted.

Now they're homeless in the in the middle of a pandemic and so obviously that's a concern.

Well on the other side of that.

No, go ahead.

I'm sorry.

Well on the other side of that equation you have landlords who have been unable, you know, in a lot of cases to get the rent that they need in order to meet their obligations, and so it's impacted renters and landlords, I think.

Well, the crux of it, before I go to your colleague from all Mel, what is the crux of it?

In there were some federal protections from Washington for tenants insufficient.

No, I actually think that that went along way to help tenants and I think tenants in the state of Arkansas were very grateful for that.

So were landlords who were able to get their rent paid, you know, in the midst of this pandemic, so actually think it's very helpful.

Alright, let's go to the chair.

Mr Chairman, gentlemen from Maumelle?

Your response.

Your position.

Well, I've visited with Representative Gassaway about the bill and he's exactly right.

There has been enough.

There's been enough discussion in for some of the members that you know.

It may be an easier lift this year.

We do have a dramatic change and the membership of that committee, so some of the Members will be hearing testimony for the first time.

But the landlords lobby.

As you know they have concerns.

You know, I I get calls myself matter fact I had a lady from Hot Springs called me this week and she said you know I hope that you'll vote against this and she used an example of you know during the recent winter weather we had.

She asked her tenant to leave the water dripping.

You know, so that the pipes wouldn't freeze and the the tenant refused to do that.

So I don't want to pay the higher water bill to save you your pipes.

Well the pipes ended up freezing.

And then the landlord had incurs that cost, so you know there has to be some balancing, and I've looked carefully at the bill and I do see some aspects of that, and I know we'll look forward to hearing Representative Gassaway give the full presentation.

Well, not to speak for Mr. Gazaway, but I suspect he and his supporters would argue that the deck is heavily stacked in favor of landlords as it is frozen pipes or know your thoughts.

Well, I know that are like that argument.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Well, I know that arguments been made and again, you know, I think that there has to be a balancing of the needs.

Even represented.

Gazaway recognized and said during the covid during the pandemic that landlords have also been dramatic, dramatically affected.

So we'll see how this all fleshes out.

OK Mr Castle.

Way back to you.

Well, I think the issue of frozen pipes and those types of issues are.

Really separate issue from the bill that I have, which is to establish minimum standards of habitability for rental housing in Arkansas, and you know, as you said, the deck has been stacked against tenants in that regard for the longest time.

Arkansas is the only state in the country that doesn't recognize some minimum standards of habitability for renters of residential rental property, and again I would tell you we're not talking about some type of lavish luxuries and.

Gold plated fixtures or anything.

We're talking about things like hot and cold running water locks on exterior doors, carbon monoxide detectors if there's a gas source, smoke detectors.

Electrical wiring that's not unsafe, just really.

The basic things that you would expect in 2021 of any rental housing.

So while I understand the concerns that Representative Lowry raises and those things are real situations that happen, the fact is is that we're still very behind the curve.

In fact, the only state in the country that doesn't have these just basic minimum standards.

Well, gentlemen, if I can to another issue, and that's and Mr Chairman will begin with you.

Unveiled this past week was a new incarnation.

A new iteration of Arkansas Works our home obviously intended to continue funding for the Medicaid expansion.

What sort of house is it going to greet?

Mr Lowry?

Well, I was very interested to see that the bill was presented in the Senate Insurance and Commerce Committee, which usually gives you an indication that it's probably going to end up in House Insurance and Commerce.

My understanding?

I mean, if I remember correctly, bills like that sometimes have gone through through public health, so you know, we're trying to clear the deck for that bill to come over there.

I think I remember.

I think I read recently, John Brummett talking about the whole.

Approach that's being taken with our home is using the work incentive for exactly that way.

I care it, rather than a stick an I think that that's a good step forward for those of us who have wanted some type of a work requirement or a work incentive, because really, you know, this Medicaid expansion was sold to the legislature as being for working class for people, but we have never really required that that particular aspect so.

Uh, you know work can also include volunteer work.

If I understand correctly, so you know, I think it there's going to be receptive ITI, but there's also going to be speculation.

I mean there, there's going to be skepticism Mr. Gazaway.

I agree, I think that it'll likely be received with some skepticism from some of the membership.

No, I agree that I feel like that we had a good product in Arkansas works in that we were encouraging people.

Find work those who could work should work, and you know that's a good policy for our state.

But as we've seen a change in leadership at the federal level, obviously that changes the mandates that come down from the federal level and how we have to respond to that.

And so it's going to be interesting to see how this debate develops and what comes out of it, but.

You know, I think you'll have some, certainly a portion of the membership that will be very skeptical about this, and I expect that you will see some opposition.

What if at the administrative level, meaning the executive level you continue to see opposition to a work requirement instead of whatever, not only from the executive branch, but from the judicial as well?

You've had problems with the work requirement there as well.

Mr gazaway.

Well, we'll just have to wait and see I think how that develops, but obviously if that's the case.

Base then.

We will have to decide how to respond.

You know, I've heard in conversations there are some people again have mentioned.

Just go into a straight Medicaid option.

I'm not advocating for that.

Certainly I think to the extent that we can keep a work requirement, we should.

But we have three separate branches of government.

We have the executive branch which and certainly at the federal level, which dictates some of those issues.

We have.

The judicial branch whose opinions were going to respect.

And then you know, we have our legislative branch where we'll try to form solutions.

You know, as the issues come to us, yeah, Mr Lowry, what at the end of the day, will the General Assembly, whatever the outcome of the legal or administrative appeals, simply take the money?

Well, the real the real challenge here is passing the appropriation bill, which will take 75 votes in the House.

Yes, so we're not just talking about simple, simple majorities.

It's really going to come down.

You can restructure the program all you want, but you still have to have that 3/4 vote in both the House and the Senate to approve the appropriation.

Far as the working, I mean it's exactly what it is, it's work incentive.

If I understand the bill correctly, if you're not.

Meeting the work requirement or the work incentive?

Then you would have traditional Medicaid fee for service.

If you do meet the work incentive, they care it, so to speak.

Then you would be able to have the private insurance that we've been offering under Arkansas Works.

Gotta end it there gentlemen, because we're simply out of time.

We'll continue to watch come back soon.

Thank you both for being on the broadcast.

Thank you and will be right back.

And after a busy week at the state Capitol, we're back with more Andrew Demillo, Capitol Bureau chief of The Associated Press.

Jay Barth, emeritus professor of political science, Hendrix College, an Steve Brawner, an independent journalists gents.

Thanks for coming in or for dialing in, assuming that the legislative session always the first obligation of a session is to write a budget.

This budget for a decade now essentially is built around Medicaid and the expansion, so we had a new iteration of that this past week.

Our home, Andrew, will it work?

That's that's the big question.

Right now it adds to the Senate for a vote next week that you like.

You said this is the third iteration of the Medicaid expansion here and Arkansas has to submit any waiver because its current waiver expires at the end of the year.

And this the biggest or most notable change here is that it moves away from doing a work requirement which had been blocked by the course blocked by the by administration and uses.

Incentives to encourage people to work.

Encourage people to to go to school.

You know the question is how exactly is this going to work and will this be enough to win over Conservatives who have opposed Medicaid budget in the past?

We still have that 3/4 hurdle that they have to get over when we get to the appropriation bills and even after that then there's the hurdle of the Bible ministration.

Yeah, will they?

If they oppose work requirements would they?

Would they support?

An incentive, or would they still view this as penalising people somehow good?

Well, I guess that's the big question.

Obviously 75 over on the on the North side in 27 on the South side is this window.

Is it perceived as window dressing to win those conservative votes on the Senate?

And we've got a rather more conservative Senate than we did two years ago.

Yeah, well yeah we do and the thing that's interesting is you hear from some Conservatives.

There's less of a less of willingness to fight over whether or not to have expansion.

There's seems to be a little bit more of an acceptance that Medicaid expansion is here at ACA is here, but more of a debate over what it should look like.

Now you know this.

The big change here will be.

It still uses private plans, but under the incentive.

It's possible if you don't work or you don't go to school.

You could be moved to fee for service fee for service Medicaid.

You still have some Conservatives who are questioning just the whole idea of having the private option or private private plans.

Why not just go to fee for service so you're still going to have to win them over on the mechanic on the mechanics of that, but there at least the fight over over the health care overhaul seems to be kind of moving moving away now and now it's just getting more.

Really into the details of how you do this anymore.

Yeah, I was struck by a quote from from Mr Ballinger.

I think of the DG.

There's the Democratic set this past week in terms that he'd been an opponent of it.

But that to quote him that ship has sailed.

It's just woven into the budget now.

Steve bruner.

That's true, that kind of makes it a little bit surprising that we're making these major changes to the private option, because it seems like a like the opposition is kind of melted away, but there is still this effort to try to to make these changes.

That also includes some some different little with little areas of of of focus.

Rural areas veterans foster kids, women and pregnant women.

So there are some efforts to target some of the resources, but it is kind of surprising because it does seem like the that the fight is over on this so.

But again, we're going to.

I guess we're going to keep having this fight as long as there's a 75% requirement for the appropriation at the end of the day.

J Barth, will the generals that same question I put to Mr Gazaway and to Mr Lowry earlier in the broadcast at the end of the day?

Is the ship going to say oh one more time?

Yeah, I think the odds are very much so I do think that there was a need to make a continued bow on the work requirements.

I think it's been a a key component of of the Hutchinson Mantra on this issue, really.

From the moment he became governor he had that big Press event in 2015 where he said he was still for this for the private option.

But he wanted work requirements.

I think this is important for him.

But I think it's also important to recognize on the Senate side the loss of those couple of Democratic seats who have really provided some of the little bit of cushion.

It's not been much of a cushion on either into the house on any vote that's been cast on this issue.

Going back for now sessions and Sessions.

I think that there had to be something that looked enough like Arkansas works to make it palatable to some of the more conservative members.

Yeah, they got to go home.

The Mr Hutchinson this past week signed stand your ground.

The controversial amendment to the Criminal Code.

Stand your ground despite what he acknowledged to be profound reservations about it right now.

He's got an abortion bill on his desk that indications are the betting is anyway as of mid morning on Friday that he'll likely son.

He has agreed to much some concessions on executive power.

Andrew, do we have a governor here?

That's a lame duck and be kind of paying.

Playing defense here.

Yeah, I think you have a governor who's recognizing where the politics are in the legislature right now that the legislature has shifted further to the right.

Also, recognizing that historically in Arkansas governors have weak veto power.

It takes a simple majority to override the governor's veto.

An historically governors have been have used that spirit sparingly and the stand your ground as well as abortion have passed with.

Pre significant significant margins.

Stand your ground.

As you said there wasn't really much of a question or much much of an indication he was going to veto it.

The big question was what he signed it?

Or would you allow it to go into law without his signature and the abortion near work in total abortion ban is kind of similar where you will get his history of signing abortion restrictions.

I don't think there's much of an expectation that he would.

He would veto it.

But the question on the abortion legislation is how it is he balanced.

The reservations he's expressed about that legislation, the lack of a rape and incest exception.

The concern about the legal strategy of challenging Roe directly.

How does he balance that with either signing it or allowing it to to go into law?

Yeah, that's something he had to do with.

Stand your ground by noting that there was not the same law enforcement opposition that you saw two years ago and also trying to use it as kind of an argument for in favor of hate crimes legislation.

Similar with abortion, unless there's a surprise veto there, there's going to be some explanation on how he balances that balances that out.

Yeah, Jay Barth, he's on.

He's on a wire walking a wire.

Yeah, he is, and it's super fascinating, interesting, right?

Of course, the veto power is a very limited one.

It's a simple majority override.

That said, you know the vast majority of over over.

Heads up gubernatorial vetoes in the modern era have been in situations where the governor was of one party and the legislature was enough of another party.

Here we have, I think, almost certain overrides of a governor, if he were to take the step of vetoing, and he sent some very strong signals, that kind of feels like he should, but he's not going to because he knows the politics or so so problematic that just shows the lack of control he has within his own party.

I think that's what super exceptional here.

I think it's also very striking.

You know the the when his nephew Jim Hendron took the step of leaving the Republican Party.

You know, such a hindrance said he he really saw no no chance for reform from within the party.

Governor Hutchinson issued a very nice press release about his nephew but really sent a signal that he kind of agreed with his nephew.

But he thought he could reform from within the party.

Here we're seeing in these lack this lack of action in standing up to the legislature, which I think is representative of that.

It's more extreme part of the Republican Party, the governor.

It raises a question where does the governor see his ability to really reform from within?

Because it does feel like on these issues, he can make a clear case that these were out of step with legal precedent.

In the case of the abortion law are where they Arkansas public is based on.

A lot of public opinion polling on the issue of Stand Your ground and their attitude towards towards continued loosening of gun control gun measure so.

This is a very fascinating, you know, political moment for the Arkansas Republican Party, and for this governor, well, Anet isn't.

Also, at times, a very caustic of time before the Arkansas Republican Party, Steve Brown or some of these.

Some of these squabbles inside the Infra party squabbles.

Intra chamber.

I'm thinking of the Senate specifically are pretty brutal.

Over there in a surprising because the Senate traditionally has been a pretty chummy place, but not now, or at least there's a few obvious personality conflicts, and again, you have to just significant difference in opinion between the you know the the different ideological wings in the center right now.

And one thing I'm going on these sign these bills, the governor can count.

If this is something past was sending something votes in the house and 20 something in the Senate, it only takes a majority to override his veto number two.

He is on his last session, his powers or not at their height.

#3 he's exercised a lot of power in the past year, alot unprecedented in in my lifetime.

For a politician to have this much power over our lives.

Not saying that's the criticism, it's just the reality of what he's been through and what he's done.

I guess you're seeing pushback now from the legislature saying, you know, we have three branches of government.

We are a free society between all that between the veto power being so so week between him being in his last session in between what he's done for the past year, it's going to be tough for him to site to veto anything right now.

Yeah, well, Steve, you did the Segway for me there.

There has been significant pushback at it continues onto this hour from the General Assembly on Executive authority in tight.

Whether it's an emergency situation, covid.

Or not an Mr. Hutchinson would seem to be had little choice, but to concur in some of that.

Well, yeah, I am sure that over the past year some of the things he's done has given him pause.

This.

This really is an unprecedented exercise of power, and he's not.

He's not an autocrat.

But at the same time he's got to protect future governors from and their priorities and and labeling to do what they have to do.

If we face this situation again and again, he's gotta go back to the same issue that I mentioned a minute ago.

How he's got to deal with the legislature that's ready to push back.

So between all of those factors that are there that are going on, it's not surprising to me that he's willing to sign on to the bill.

He's got knowing it could be way worse.

Yeah.

Just go back to Andrew.

Andrew.

Yeah it yeah, I think the other legislation that we see moving through right now.

You know it expands significantly.

The legislatures say in emergency declarations for public health emergencies, but it's does not.

There's still some limits to that expansion.

It doesn't strip away the governor's powers as I think some some legislators would like to see an the governor has said he'll he'll sign this.

If it remains the same as what the Senate passed, probably what's affecting that somewhat is he's already lifted most of the restrictions here.

The mask mandate is still in effect, at least through the end of the month, and you're seeing in several other red states.

Other governors lifting restrictions as well to facing similar pressure, even though you still have public health experts, an AC/DC and others raising concerns that it.

It's too early to to ease back on some of these restrictions, so he's at a different different point.

Now then, you know, maybe six months ago in the fight over over power where it may be easier to go along with something.

Some of these changes.

But the big question is if you think it becomes a dire even more dire situation an Arkansas needs needs to put these restrictions restrictions back in place.

J bar 30 seconds remaining.

Burn it up.

Well, I'm just I'm fascinated by this session.

It's this.

These battles within the party between parties between personalities.

Between these branches of government, Anne Anne.

I'm just it's a fascinating time and it's all I think that everything may be turned up A notch in terms of intensity because of the the covid atmosphere that in which we're operating the fact that the the the the journalists are not there quite as watching quite as closely as as usual the Publix, not is there watching quite as potent closely as public.

I think there is a sense legislators may have a field day since they can get away with a little bit more, but it's it's not.

Doesn't set the stage for a healthy future for for, for governance in Arkansas, Barth Brunner, D'mello, thanks very much for coming aboard guys.

We are simply out of time for this week.

Will be back in seven days.

Hope you will be too.

Support for Arkansas Week provided by the Arkansas Democrat Gazette.

The Arkansas Times and KUER FM 89.