THIS PROGRAM IS MADE BY MPT TO ENRICH THE DIVERSE COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT OUR STATE AND IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF OUR MEMBERS.

THANK YOU.

CONNECTING MARYLANDERS TO THEIR GOVERNMENT, THIS IS "STATE CIRCLE".

>> Jeff: WELCOME TO "STATE CIRCLE".

IF GOVERNOR MOORE DOES WANT TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT WHAT IS HIS BEST PATH TO VICTORY?

WE'LL GET ADVISE FROM PRESIDENTIAL ADVISERS AL FROM AND CRAIG FULLER.

FIRST, A NEW STATE LAW TARGETS THE MOST DANGEROUS DRIVERS.

AS NANCY AMATA REPORTS IT WAS INSPIRED BY A MONTGOMERY COUNTY OFFICER WHO WAS CRITICALLY INJURED.

>> I'M DOING GREAT.

I'M BACK ON THE ROAD OUT OF THE TRAFFIC OPERATIONS DIVISION INTO SPECIAL OPERATIONS DIVISION.

AND WORKING WITH OUR AIR SUPPORT UNIT DOING DRONES.

>> IT IS A REMARKABLE ACHIEVEMENT CONSIDERING WHAT HAPPENED TO MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE SERGEANT PATRICK, A YEAR-AND-A-HALF AGO WHILE TRYING TO STOP A RECKLESS DRIVER SPEEDING OVER 100-MILES-PER-HOUR ALONG I270.

>> I GOT HIT.

I ASKED YOU BACK KINS MILL.

>> THIS IS THE 911 CALL HE MADE TO DISPATCHERS AFTER THE DRIVER INTENTIONALLY DROVE TOWARD HIM WHILE LAYING OUT STOP STICKS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD.

>> THAT RESULTED IN THE TRAUMATIC AMPUTATION ON SCENE OF MY RIGHT LEG AND MY LEFT LEG WAS FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM MANGLED ON THE SCENE I HAD INJURIES TO MY BACKSIDE.

>> HE LOST BOTH LEGS.

HE SAYS HIS FRIENDS, FAMILY AND ESPECIALLY HIS COLLEAGUES SHOWED UP.

>> THAT REALLY IS WHAT ENABLED ME TO GET THROUGH EVERYTHING ON THE MENTAL SIDE.

IT WAS TOUGH NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT BUT HAVING THAT NETWORK, PEOPLE, 24/7 EVEN IF I DIDN'T WANT THEM FROM SHOCK TRAUMA TO WALTER REED AND HERE TODAY.

>> HE SAYS THAT SUPPORT AND HIS DRIVE AND DETERMINATION LED HIM TO PUSH THROUGH THE PAIN IN REHAB AND LEARN TO WALK AGAIN WITH PROSTHETICS AND FULFILL HIS GOAL GETTING BACK TO JOB.

>> I WANTED TO GET BACK TO THE JOB SEEING THE SUPPORT AND RECOLLECT NAZZING SO MANY PEOPLE DID SO MUCH FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO GIVE BACK TO THE DEPARTMENT THAT SUPPORTED ME THROUGH THAT I WANTED TO COME BACK AND DO THE JOB I WAS DOING OR THE DOING THE JOB I AM DOING NOW.

IT WAS A SETBACK AND A DISABILITY THAT HAMPERS WHAT YOU CAN DO BUT IT DOESN'T STOP ME FROM DOING WHAT I HAD DONE AT 3:00 A.M. ON OCTOBER 18TH VERSUS NOW.

>> SERGEANT KENNEBUNKPORT HELPED LAWMAKERS IN ANNAPOLIS PASS A BILL THAT IMPOSES PENALTIES FOR RECKLESS DRIVERS.

MANY SUPPORTERS BELIEVE THAT THE SUSPECT WAS FOUND GUILTY OF SECOND-DEGREE ASSAULT AND NOT AEMPTY ITED MURDER.

THE SERGEANT'S DEDICATION AND ENTHUSIASM FOR HIS JOB HAS NEVER WAVERED.

>> IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EASY TO TAP OUT OR YOU KNOW, LEAVE THE DEPARTMENT, RETIRE SIT AT HOME.

BUT THAT IS THE JUST NOT ME I'M SOMEONE THAT HAS TO BE UP AND MOVING AROUND AND WORKING.

IT IS A GREAT JOB IT IS A GREAT PROCESSION AND I REALLY LOVE IT AND WOULDN'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING ELSE AND HOPEFULLY SOMEONE SEES SOMEONE THAT HAS BEEN THROUGH SOMETHING CRAPPY WANTS TO DO THE JOB AND IT'S STILL A GREAT JOB TO HAVE AND A GREAT PROCESSION TO BE A PART OF.

>> Jeff: JOINING US ARE THE SPONSORS OF THE ACT, SENATOR NANCY KING THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER AND DELEGATE GREG DWREG BOTH OF GREG WIMS BOTH OF MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

SENATOR KING TELL US WHAT THIS BILL, NOW, LAW, DOES.

>> .

>> IT'S GOING TO INCREASE PENALTIES FOR PEOPLE DRIVING RECKLESSLY.

THAT OUR BIG PROBLEM ON THE BELTWAY SO IT WILL INCREASE PENALTIES.

AND IF YOU GET A SECOND OFFENSE YOU CAN GET JAIL TIME.

>> Jeff: GREG WIMS WHY DID YOU SIGN ON AS THE LEAD SPONSOR IN THE HOUSE?

>> FIRST OF ALL THE SERGEANT PATRICK WHO WE NAMED THE ACT AFTER WAS HIT AND ALMOST KILLED ON 270 OUTSIDE OF OUR DISTRICT SENATOR KING AND I.

WHEN WE HEARD ABOUT THE STORY WE TALKED ABOUT LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THEY SAY THE PERSON WHO COMMITTED THE CRIME HAD BEEN STOPPED SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE.

SO SENATOR KING AND I THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO PUT A BILL IN THAT WOULD STOP OR SLOW DOWN AGGRESSIVE DRIVING.

>> Jeff: QUESTION FOR EITHER OF YOU.

TAKE US BACK TO DRIVER'S ED WHICH IN MY CASE WAS A LONGTIME AGO.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RECKLESS DRIVING, WHICH I THINK IS WORSE THAN NEGLIGENT DRIVING AND THEN AGGRESSIVE DRIVING IS SOMETHING ELSE AND THIS LAW AFFECTS ALL THREE OFFENSES, CORRECT?

>> WHAT WE FOUND IN TALKING WITH THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT WHO ALSO SUPPORTED THE BILL WITH SENATOR KING AND I WAS THAT THE AGGRESSIVE DRIVING WAS ONE WHERE A PERSON PLAIN ENGLISH GOING IN AND OUT OF TRAFFIC, GOING AT EXCESSIVE SPEED AND THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS WE WANTED TO STOP.

AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE NEGLIGENT DRIVING THAT IS WHERE A PERSON GOES OFF LIKE IF YOU ARE ON 270, AND YOU HAVE THE LINE, IT GOES OFF OF THE LINE OFF TOWARDS THE GRASS AND PASSES OTHER CARS.

SO WHAT WE SAID WAS THAT WE PUT AGGRESSIVE AND NEGLIGENT DRIVING IN THE BILL AND SO IF A PERSON WAS STOPPED THEY WOULD HAVE ADDITIONAL PENALTIES THAT THE BILL CALLS FOR.

>> Jeff: SENATOR THIS SEEMS TO HAVE SAILED THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE UNANIMOUS ON THE FLOOR.

ANY CONCERNS IN COMMITTEE?

>> NO.

I MEAN, WE HAVE A LOT OF LAWYERS ON THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.

SO WE WERE AFRAID WE WOULD GET SOME PUSHBACK ON IT.

BUT REALLY DIDN'T.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS, I THINK, THAT AFFECTED SO MANY PEOPLE IS SERGEANT KEPP CAME TO ANNAPOLIS TO TESTIFY ON THE BILLS AND HE IS BACK FULL-TIME WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WITH TWO ARTIFICIAL LEGS.

AND WORKING HE IS JUST A SUPER GUY.

AND JUST A REAL PROFESSIONAL.

SO THAT REALLY WAS SO EFFECTIVE TO ALL OF MEMBERS THAT CAME IN CONTACT WITH HIM.

>> Jeff: THESE OFFENSES ARE ESPECIALLY HARD TO ENFORCE.

I'VE BEEN IN SITUATIONS RECENTLY UP ON I-95 WHERE THERE WAS SOME CLEAR RECKLESS NEGLIGENT, AGGRESSIVE DRIVING ALL THOSE THINGS GOING ON.

HIGH RATES OF SPEED.

WEAVING BETWEEN OTHER VEHICLES.

AND EVEN IF A TROOPER HAD BEEN THERE ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, AS TRAFFIC BLEW BY HE OR SHE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE KNOWN WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND IF YOU CALL, I DON'T KNOW IF 911 OR POUND 77 WOULD BE APPROPRIATE, BUT IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE THAT THEY COULD INTERCEPT IT IN THE ACT.

DOES THAT SEEM RIGHT?

>> I TOTALLY AGREE.

AND IT'S IT PUTS OTHER PEOPLE IN DANGER.

SO THEY REALLY THEY DON'T HAVE A GOOD WAY OF STOPPING THEM.

BUT IF THEY DO HAPPEN TO GET STOPPED THEN WE HAVE THESE PENALTIES IN PLACE FOR STOPPING THEM.

>> AND I WANTED TO ADD, THE KEY THING IN THE HOUSE WAS THAT BEFORE THIS ACT THIS BILL BECAME LAW, PEOPLE COULD BE SPEEDING AT 100-MILES-PER-HOUR.

BUT THEY WEREN'T REQUIRED TO COME TO COURT.

THIS BILL SPECIFICALLY SAYS IF YOU ARE GOING 30 MILES OVER THE SPEED LIMIT WHATEVER THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT YOU MUST APPEAR AND THAT WAS THE KEY THING FROM ALL THE WITNESSES THAT CAME TO TESTIFY.

THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THOSE AGGRESSIVE SPEEDERS WOULD HAVE TO COME TO COURT.

>> Jeff: YOU KNOW, WE REPORTED MAYBE SIX MONTHS AGO THAT THE PANDEMIC CHANGED A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT THRIVING.

WE HAD YEARS WHERE TRAFFIC WAS WAY DOWN AND MAYBE THAT PERIOD ALLOWED SOME DRIVERS TO GET MORE AGGRESSIVE.

I DON'T KNOW, BUT THE TOTAL NUMBER OF POINTS THAT THE STATE IS ASSESSING THE MVA IS PUTTING ON ALL THE DRIVERS LICENSES COMBINED IS WAY DOWN.

COMPARED TO PREPANDEMIC WE'RE DOWN ABOUT 25%.

THAT'S AS OF FISCAL '24.

PROBABLY NOT BECAUSE DRIVERS ARE DRIVING BETTER, NOT FROM WHAT I SEE, DO YOU GET A SENSE THAT ENFORCEMENT HAS SLACKED OFF?

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S SLACKED OFF JUST THAT WE HAVE SO MUCH TRAFFIC AND WHEN YOU BAD ACTOR THAT IS ZINCING IN AND OUT OF TRAFFIC THERE IS NOT A SAFE WAY THE POLICE CAN STOP THEM AND WE DON'T WANT TO PUT THEM MORE INTO DANGER THAN WE HAVE TO.

SERGEANT KEPP'S CASE HE WAS THE GUY DRIVE DIRECTLY AT HIM AT 120 SOME-MILES-PER-HOUR AND TOOK OFF BOTH OF HIS LEGS.

WE DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN BUT WE WANT TO STOP SOME OF THE BAD ACTORS, TOO.

>> Jeff: IN THAT CASE PROSECUTORS CHARGED ATTEMPTED MURDER.

THE JURY CONVICTED HIM ON SECOND-DEGREE ASSAULT.

>> WE WERE A LITTLE BIT DISAPPOINTED ABOUT THAT.

>> Jeff: IS THERE A ROLE FOR TECHNOLOGY HERE?

I MEAN WE HAVE SPEED CAMERAS, WE HAVE RED LIGHT CAMERAS THAT SORT OF THING.

IS THERE SOME WAY TO GO AFTER -- THESE MOST DANGEROUS DRIVERS YOU THINK ABOUT THE CRASH ON THE BALTIMORE BELTWAY A COUPLE YEARS AGO IN A WORK ZONE.

TWO PEOPLE GOING 120.

IS THERE A WAY TO DO THAT WITH TECHNOLOGY?

AND IS THAT SOMETHING THE LEGISLATURE WOULD LOOK AT BECAUSE I KNOW IN THE LAST SESSION THERE WAS A BILL ABOUT SPEED CAMERAS IN BALTIMORE COUNTY THAT I DO NOT THINK WAS APPROVED?

>> NO.

AND WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING BUT WE DON'T WANT TO OVERDO IT ALSO.

THAT IS THE BIGGEST CONCERN I HEAR FROM OTHER LEGISLATORS WE DON'T WANT A SPEED CAMERA ON EVERY CORNER.

THERE WAS A BILL IN TO PUT CAMERAS AT STOP SIGNS.

AND YOU DON'T WANT TO OVERDO IT.

AND IT CAN EASILY BE OVERDONE WE ARE TRYING TO BE CAREFUL WITH IT.

>> Jeff: I DON'T KNOW DELEGATE, I DON'T KNOW IF I SPEAK FOR ALL DRIVERS, BUT I HAVE OCCASIONALLY GONE OVER THE SPEED LIMIT BY 5 OR 10-MILES-PER-HOUR.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT DESERVES A TICKET MAYBE IT DOES.

BUT THE PEOPLE DOING 100 DESERVE A TICKET.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I WOULD SAY WE HAD A COUPLE DOZEN PEOPLE TESTIFY ON THIS BILL IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THE HOUSE SIDE WE HAD THOSE WHO WORK WITH THE SCHOOL BUS DRIVERS ET CETERA, AND THEY WERE VERY CONCERNED THAT IF THIS BILL WAS TO PASS PEOPLE CONTINUE TO DRIVE RECKLESSLY AND SPEEDING THAT THEY COULD BE THAT A CHILD WALKING TO SCHOOL COULD BE HIT.

SO WE ARE PLEASED THAT THIS BILL WAS PASSED AND THE GOVERNOR SIGNED IT.

BECAUSE WE THINK IT WILL SLOW DOWN TRAFFIC.

BECAUSE THE PENALTIES ARE STIFF UP TO $600 FINE BUT THE FACT THAT THEY COULD GET JAIL TIME IF THEY COME BACK AGAIN AS SENATOR KING SAID BEFORE THE JUDGE.

>> Jeff: AND DELEGATE, YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY IS GOING TO PENALIZE YOU, TOO.

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.

YES.

>> Jeff: QUESTION FOR BOTH OF YOU.

JUST YOUR THOUGHTS ON SERGEANT KEPP WHEN YOU SEE THAT HE IS BACK AT WORK?

>> IF I COULD GO FIRST, BECAUSE SERGEANT KEPP AND I THINK THE SAME WITH THE SENATOR HE CAME TO TESTIFY EACH TIME.

WE HAD A COUPLE HEARINGS ON THE HOUSE SIDE.

AND WHEN HE FIRST ARRIVED HE WAS IN A WHEELCHAIR.

THE NEXT YEAR, HE CAME HE WAS HAD A WALKER, YOU WOULD SAY.

AT THE LAST TWO HEARINGS AND THE SENATOR WOULD TALK ABOUT BEFORE THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE HE WALKED IN ON HIS OWN AND MADE A COMPELLING TESTIMONY AND THEN HE TOLD US HE WAS GOING BACK TO WORK WHICH HE IS TODAY HE IS WORKING ON THE FORCE AGAIN IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.

I CALLED HIM THERE AND I WANT TO SAY ON THIS TV SHOW HE IS A HERO TO ALL MARYLANDERS, A TRUE HERO.

>> Jeff: SENATOR?

>> JUST AN INCREDIBLE HUMAN BEING.

TO HAVE HAD THAT HAPPEN TO HIM HE IS NOT BITTER, HE'S -- HE JUST DOESN'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN TO SOMEBODY ELSE.

HANDLED IT SO WELL EMOTIONALLY.

AND JUST A SUPER HUMAN BEING.

HE JUST, HE LIKES WHAT HE DOES.

AND HE WANTS TO BE THERE DOING IT.

AND I JUST SAW A VIDEO A WEEK OR TWO AGO, HE'S PLAYING ICE HOCKEY.

I MEAN THE GUY IS NOTHING IS STOPPING HIM.

HE IS JUST A SUPER HUMAN BEING.

>> Jeff: GREAT EXAMPLE, SENATOR KING DELEGATE GREG WIMS THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

[♪♪] >> Jeff: AND JOINING US NOW FOR THE POLITICAL ROUNDTABLE ARE AL FROM FORMER ADVISER TO PRESIDENT CLINTON AND CRAIG FULLER ADVISER TO PRESIDENTS REAGAN AND GEORGE H.W.

BUSH AND FROM AND FULLER ARE ON THE NEWS SITE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AGAIN.

YOU HAVE BOTH WON PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS I WOULD LIKE TO BEGIN WITH WHAT YOUR ADVICE MIGHT BE FOR GOVERNOR WES MOORE WHO SEEMS TO BE FLIRTING WITH THE IDEA OF RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

AL, YOU ARE THE DEMOCRATIC INSIDER.

WHAT WOULD YOU ADVICE?

>> I'M NOT THE DEMOCRATIC INSIDER BUT I'D ADVISE LET ME SAY I THINK GOVERNOR MOORE IS THE KIND OF CHARISMATIC LEADER WHO DEFINITELY WOULD HAVE A SHOT AT NATIONAL OFFICE.

YOU NEVER KNOW HOW UNTIL YOU GET INTO A CAMPAIGN HOW SOMEBODY'S GOING TO DO.

BECAUSE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT IS A LOT MORE DIFFICULT THAN EVEN RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

BUT, I WOULD GIVE WES MOORE A COUPLE OF QUICK PIECES OF ADVICE.

FIRST, BE A GOOD GOVERNOR.

YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IF YOU NEED TO HAVE -- IF THE PEOPLE OF YOUR STATE DON'T THINK YOU ARE A GOOD GOVERNOR IT'S HARDER TO MAKE A CASE NATIONALLY THAT YOU WOULD BE A GOOD PRESIDENT.

THE SECOND IS I THINK HE OUGHT TO LOOK THE WAY THAT BILL CLINTON RAN RATHER THAN BARACK OBAMA.

BUT I THINK THAT HE OUGHT TO LOOK AT REALLY WORKING WITH GROUP OF MAYBE EVEN SOME ELECTED OFFICIALS.

BUT A LOT OF EXPERTS PUT TOGETHER MAYBE HAVE AN AFFILIATION WITH A THINK TANK AND DEVELOP AN AGENDA FOR THE COUNTRY.

BECAUSE WE'RE IN A PERIOD OF CHANGE AND WE NEED NEW IDEAS AND HE NEEDS TO DEVELOP THEM.

YOU KNOW I THINK THAT WOULD BE A REALLY GOOD START AND THE THIRD THING I WOULD ADVISE HIM IS TO HE'S GOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT MARYLAND IS NOT THE COUNTR.

MARYLAND IS ONE OF THE MOST LIBERAL STATES IN THE COUNTRY.

AND THE -- HE'S GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW HE CAN UNDERSTAND AND TALK TO THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE COUNTRY.

>> Jeff: Mr. FULLER FROM THE REPUBLICAN SIDE OF THE AISLE, IF YOU WERE GIVING ADVICE WHAT DO YOU SAY?

>> I CONCUR WITH WHAT AL HAS SAID.

HE DOES HAVE TO BE A SUCCESSFUL GOVERNOR.

THAT'S WHAT HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO RUN ON.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S PROS AND CONS TO SITTING IN THAT OFFICE.

IF THE BUDGET DEFICIT SWELLS, IF YOU HAVE THE CIVIL DISRUPTION ALL THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT ARE SWIRLING AROUND NOW, CAN HURT MORE THAN HELP.

BUT HE CERTAINLY IS BEING SEEN AS A STRONG GOVERNOR AND A STRONG CONTENDER.

I WILL POINT OUT FROM THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, THOUGH, TWO PEOPLE WITH WHOM I WORK CLOSELY RONALD REAGAN AND ALSO PETE WILSON, WHEN THEY WERE SITTING GOVERNORS, COULD NOT GET THEIR PARTY'S NOMINATION.

IN FACT -- >> Jeff: WELL, THEY WERE BOTH GOVERNORS OF CALIFORNIA.

>> BOTH GOVERNORS OF CALIFORNIA.

RONALD REAGAN ROONE WHILE HE WAS GOVERNOR.

NOW IT WAS EARLY DAYS IN HIS POLITICAL CAREER AND PROBABLY DID NOT HAVE A HUGE CHANCE HE WAS NOT ABLE TO CATAPULT HIS POSITION AS GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA TO WIN HIS OWN PARTY'S NOMINATION.

GOVERNOR WILSON ACTUALLY IN CALIFORNIA HAD A SITUATION THAT IS NOT DISSIMILAR FROM WHAT GOVERNOR MOORE WILL FACE, PETE WILSON RAN FOR REELECTION AND WHEN HE RAN FOR REELECTION HE SAID IF ELECTED HE WOULDN'T RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

HE WAS REELECTED AND SUDDENLY DECIDED OTHER CANDIDATES DROPPED OUT MAYBE I WILL RUN FOR ELECTION.

I CHAIRED THAT CAMPAIGN AND IT WASN'T SUCCESSFUL.

IN PART BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THAT SUPPORTED HIM AND FUNDED HIS CAMPAIGN FOR THE REELECTION OF THE GOVERNOR SAID, HEY, PETE, ENOUGH'S ENOUGH.

SO IT'S NOT A SLAM DUNK.

IT IS A TRICKY SITUATION TO BE THE SITTING GOVERNOR.

YOU LIKE TO TAKE CREDIT FOR ALL THE THINGS YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH AND FOR THE LEADER YOU ARE SEEN AS BEING.

BUT THERE'S SOME HEADWINDS THAT YOU ALSO FACE AND I ONLY POINT THAT OUT TO THOSE INTERESTED IN GOVERNOR MOORE'S CANDIDACY.

>> Jeff: I'M SURE THERE ARE PEOPLE WATCHING THINKING THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS DECLARED OVER AND OVER AGAIN I AM NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

NOW HE HAS DECLARED THAT STANDING AT THE PODIUM OF A DEMOCRATIC DINNER IN SOUTH CAROLINA WHICH IS AN EARLY PRIMARY STATE WHICH SEEMS A LITTLE LIKE YOU ARE STANDING AT THE STARTING LINE OF THE BOSTON MARATHON LACING UP YOUR RUNNING SHOES ON PATRIOTS' DAY SAYING I'M NOT RUNNING IN THE RACE.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

HE HAS TO SAY THAT?

>> HIS LAWYERS WILL TELL HIM HE HAS TO SAY THAT F YOU SAY YOU ARE A CANDIDATE YOU TRIGGER A SET OF THINGS.

BUT I ALSO THINK HE WANTS TO KEEP HIS EYE ON THE BALL AND KEEPS FOCUSED ON WHAT HE IS DOING AND WANTS TO BE SUCCESSFUL DOWN THE ROAD.

AND HIS OWN REELECTION.

NOT SURPRISING.

BUT MAYBE HE PROTESTS A BIT TOO MUCH.

>> Jeff: YOU KNOW, IF HE DOES IN HIS HEART DESIRE TO BE THE PRESIDENT, IS THERE ANYWAY THAT HE'S BETTER OFF RUNNING AS THE FORMER GOVERNOR OF MARYLAND?

>> BILL CLINTON FACED THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES AS GOVERNOR MOORE DOES.

HE HAD TO RUN FOR REELECTION IN 1990 AND I REMEMBER HE WAS AT THAT TIME CHAIRMAN OF THE DLC AND I REMEMBER HIM MAKING HIS SPEECH WHERE HE ANNOUNCED REELECTION BUT WE ALL THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO SAY HE WAS NOT GOING TO RUN FOR REELECTION.

I THINK TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I THINK IT DOESN'T MATTER.

OF COURSE HE SHOULD -- HE'S SAYING NOW THAT HE ISN'T GOING TO RUN.

CLINTON SAID THAT IN 1990.

AND WHEN HE DECIDED TO RUN WHAT HE DID HE WENT AROUND THE STATE AND HE HELD A SERIES OF MEETINGS AND FORUMS.

DID THIS FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AND BASICALLY ASKED THE STATE FOR PERMISSION TO RUN.

AND YOU KNOW WORKED OUT OKAY.

>> Jeff: YES, SEEMED TO A COUPLE OF TIMES.

>> YEAH.

>> Jeff: LET'S TALK ABOUT SOUTH CAROLINA A LITTLE BIT.

THAT IS WHERE THE GOVERNOR JUST MADE THE SPEECH THERE IS A PHOTO OF HIM WITH CONGRESSMAN DLI BURN WHO -- CLYBURN WHO WAS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT IN PRESIDENT BIDEN'S CAMPAIGN.

AND WHERE GOVERNOR MOORE HAS ROOTS.

I MEAN SHOULD HE SETUP HOUSEKEEPING THERE?

DOES HE HAVE A SHOT AT THE CLYBURN ENDORSEMENT?

AND THEN YOU LEVERAGE THAT INTO MAYBE AN EARLY PRIMARY WIN.

>> WELL, LOOK, I DON'T KNOW THAT HE HAS A SHOT AT JIM CLYBURN'S ENDORSEMENT.

CLYBURN IS THE LEADER OF SOUTH CAROLINA DEMOCRATS.

BUT HE IS ALSO 83, 84 YEARS OLD.

HE MAY NOT EVEN WANT TO PLAY IN 2028.

YOU KNOW, MY OWN VIEW IS HE'D BE BETTER OFF SPENDING TIME FIGURING OUT WHAT HE WANTS TO DO AS PRESIDENT AND HOW HE WOULD BE A GOOD PRESIDENT AND WHY HE WOULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

THAN HE WOULD TRYING TO SETUP AN EARLY OPERATION IN SOUTH CAROLINA.

HE CAN'T DO IT ONCE YOU START DOING THAT, THEN YOU DO AS CRAIG SAYS GET INVOLVED WITH THE PRESIDENTIAL LAWS.

YOU CAN'T EVEN -- ONCE YOU HAVE A EXPLORATORY COMMITTEE YOU ARE CONSIDERED A CANDIDATE.

AND IF YOU START ORGANIZING IN THOSE STATES, YOU RUN INTO THAT PROBLEM.

AND IT CHANGES A LOT OF THE LAWS THAT MAKE IT HARDER FOR HIM TO OPERATE.

>> I ONLY ADD THAT I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT GOVERNOR MOORE HAS GOING FOR HIM AN ADVANTAGE AND I THINK HE SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT HE HE HAS BUILT A NATIONAL REPUTATION.

I AGREE HE HAS TO FOCUS ON BEING GOVERNOR HE HAS THE ABILITY TO MOVE AROUND THE COUNTRY TO HELP OTHER CANDIDATES.

THAT IS A WAY OF BUILDING CHIPS AND WINNING PEOPLE OVER.

AND IT'S ALSO A WAY TO GET TO KNOW THE COUNTRY MORE.

TO BE OUT AMONG MORE PEOPLE.

AND IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE TO HAVE A LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR IN WHOM YOU HAVE A GOOD DEAL OF TRUST.

THE ABILITY TO LEAVE THE STATE A LITTLE BIT MORE OFTEN, BUT NOT SOMEHOW CREATE DISRUPTION BY DOING SO IS AN ADVANTAGE FOR HIM AND HE'LL BE A STRONGER CANDIDATE IN MY VIEW, IF HE DOES SPEND SOMETIME TRAVELING AROUND EVEN IF IT'S CAMPAIGN ACTIVITY FUNDRAISING ACTIVITY, AND CERTAINLY HE'S BEING CALLED UPON TO DO THAT.

>> I AGREE GOING AROUND THE COUNTRY IS VERY HELPFUL.

AND OBVIOUSLY HELPING DEMOCRATS DOES BUILD POLITICAL CHIPS.

I THINK THE OTHER THING YOU OUGHT TO DO AROUND THE COUNTRY IS TAKE IDEAS AND TEST THEM IN SMALL INFORMAL GROUPS.

BILL CLINTON AND I TRAVELED TO 25 STATES IN 1990 AND 91.

AND WE TESTED OUR AGENDA.

AND AS CONTRADICT WILL ATTEST, BECAUSE WE WERE SUCCESSFUL IN THAT CAMPAIGN, THAT AGENDA HE HAD INTERNALIZED IT AND IT WAS A VERY POWERFUL PART OF HIS VICTORY.

>> Jeff: YOU'RE ALSO TRYING TO FORECAST WHAT THE POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT'S GOING TO BE LIKE IN 28.

A LITTLE HARD TO HAVE VISIBILITY ON THAT MAYBE BETTER VISIBILITY FOR NEXT YEAR.

I LOOKED AT ONE OF THE PREDICTION MARKETS ON-LINE THAT HAD A 75% CHANCE OF DEMOCRATS TAKING THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT TO YOU GENTLEMEN?

>> IT SOUNDS PRETTY MUCH RIGHT TO ME.

LOOK, THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS ALWAYS OR ALMOST ALWAYS ARE REFERENDA ON THE INCUMBENT.

TRUMP'S NUMBERS ARE DOWN AND GOING DOWN.

AND SO AS LONG AS THE DEMOCRATS AVOID REMINDING PEOPLE IN SWING DISTRICTS WHY THEY SOMETIMES VOTE REPUBLICAN I THINK THE DEMOCRATS COULD HAVE A VERY GOOD YEAR.

>> I SUSPECT THAT PROBABLY BOTH THE HOUSE AND SENATE BY THE TIME WE GET TO THE NEXT NOVEMBER, THAT IS A LONG WAYS AWAY ARE GOING TO BE VULNERABLE TO BEING FLIPPED.

AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE FRANKLY, PRESIDENT TRUMP CREATES HIS OWN REALITY AND HE MOVES IN AND LIVES IN IT.

AND HE LOVES THE ADORATION OF MAGA AND HE IS GOING TO HAVE TANKS DRIVING PAST HIM IN THE MILITARY FOR HIS BIRTHDAY.

GREAT EVENTS, BUT THAT IS IN STARK CONTRAST TO WHEN HE HAS TO GO INTO A PLACE WHERE THE PUBLIC'S INVITED OR CAN PURCHASE TICKETS LIKE THE KENNEDY CENTER AND HE IS BOOED AND RIDICULED AND HE DOESN'T LIKE THAT AT ALL.

YOU TAKE THAT KIND OF EXPERIENCE, YOU TAKE THE FACT THAT I JUST DON'T THINK HE IS IN TOUCH WITH THE REALITY OUT THERE AND AS AL SAYS THE POLLING NUMBERS ARE DROPPING AND HE IS DOING NOTHING TO BROADEN HIS BASE OR STRENGTHEN SUPPORTERS.

>> Jeff: YOU CAN HEAR MORE AT TALBOT SPY.ORG AND THAT IS "STATE CIRCLE" FOR THIS WEEK.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING WE'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE MONDAY EVENING AT 7:00 P.M. FOR "DIRECT CONNECTION".

[♪♪]