[*] >> CONNECTING MARYLANDERS TO THEIR GOVERNMENT, THIS IS "STATE CIRCLE".

>> Bill: WELCOME TO "STATE CIRCLE" ON OUR PROGRAM THIS WEEK, YOUNG ATHLETES USING THEIR PLATFORMS TO PRO POET SOCIAL JUSTICE.

AD ANALYZING THE FALLOUT FROM THE DEBT CEILING DEAL.

BUT FIRST THIS WEEK, A NEW STRATEGY FOR DEALING WITH LOW LEVEL CRIME.

WE SPOKE WITH BALTIMORE CITY STATE'S ATTORNEY IVAN BATES.

Mr. STATE'S ATTORNEY THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

EVERYBODY CAN SEE YOU ARE A BUSY MAN.

TELL US WHAT IT WAS THAT YOU ANNOUNCED WITH RESPECT TO LOW LEVEL OFFENSES IN BALTIMORE?

>> YES, SIR, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

I AM FLASH-FLOOD TO BE HERE.

WHAT I SAID WAS WHEN IT COMES TO QUALITY OF LIFE CRIMES, QUALITY OF LIFE OFFENSES, THOSE ARE THE OFFENSES THAT MY PREDECESSOR DECIDED TO NO LONGER PROSECUTE OR HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE THAT WE WERE GOING TO START HOLDING PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE AGAIN IN A WAY THAT MAKES SENSE.

ONE WE'RE NEVER GOING TO GO BACK TO THE MASS INCARCERATION, JUST LOCK PEOPLE UP FOR LOW LEVEL OFFENSES BUT WE WILL HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE THROUGH A CITATION AND IT WILL LEAD AN INDIVIDUAL TO THE COURT.

ONCE IN COURT WE WILL GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO RECEIVE THE COMMUNITY SERVICE FIVE OR SIX HOURS OF COMMUNITY SERVICE HOLDING ACCOUNTABLE AND WE ARE ALSO GOING TO GIVE THE INDIVIDUALS AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE WRAP AROUND SERVICES THAT THEY MAY NEED WHETHER IT'S GED TRAINING, WHETHER IT'S JOB TRAINING PLACEMENT OR WHETHER IT'S MENTAL HEALTH SCREENING OR DRUG TREATMENT.

THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS WE'RE GOING TO WORK ON WITH GROUPS AND ORGANIZATIONS TO PROVIDE THESE SERVICES.

>> Bill: WHAT ARE EXAMPLES OF THE OFFENSES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

>> YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT LOITERING, TRESPASS.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT DIRT BIKE RIDING.

EVEN DRUG POSSESSION.

DRUG POSSESSION WE ARE TRYING TO DIRECT THE INDIVIDUALS INTO DRUG TREATMENT PROGRAMS AND THEFT UNDER $1500.

THOSE TYPES OF CASES THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.

>> Bill: PUBLIC DEFENDERS OFFICE GAVE A STATEMENT TO THE BALTIMORE SUN THEY WERE CRITICAL OF THIS SAYING THE CASES ARE STILL GOING TO MOST HEAVILY FALL ON MEMBERS OF MINORITY COMMUNITIES, DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> LOOK, THE PUBLIC DEFENDERS OFFICE THEY DON'T WANT ANYBODY HELD ACCOUNTABLE THAT IS DISCUSSIONS WE FOUND OUT.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE CITIZENS ARE THE ONES WHO ARE UPSET ABOUT THE QUALITY OF LIFE CRIMES.

YOU KNOW IN TERMS OF MINORITY AND DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES, I MEAN LOOK WE WILL BE IN ALL DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS IMPORTANT IS THAT NOBODY HAS THE OPPORTUNITY IF THEY JUST DO WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO, TO HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD.

I EXPECT THE PUBLIC DEFENDERS OFFICE TO WELCOME THE OPPORTUNITY FOR INDIVIDUALS TO RECEIVE THEIR GED, DON'T HAVE JOB TRAINING THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO RECEIVE THAT.

WE ASKED THE PUBLIC DEFENDERS OFFICE TO BE A PARTNER IN THIS PROCESS.

>> Bill: WHERE DO YOU SEE THIS FITTING IN THE HISTORY OF PROSECUTIONS IN BALTIMORE GOING BACK DECADES WE HAD ZERO TOLERANCE POLICING.

AND PROSECUTIONS.

THEN WE WENT TO THE OTHER EXTREME WHERE MOST RECENTLY LOW LEVEL OFFENSES WEREN'T DEALT WITH AT ALL.

IS THIS A CASE WHERE YOU SEE THE PENDULUM SWINGING BACK?

AND WOULD YOU ARGUE THIS IS A MIDDLE PATH?

>> EXACTLY.

LOOK, I LIVED IN BALTIMORE CITY DURING ZERO TOLERANCE.

AND I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE AND I KNOW WHAT THE MASS INCARCERATION WAS LIKE.

I KNOW WHAT IT WAS LIKE GOING TO JAIL JUST FOR WALKING DOWN THE SIDEWALK THE POLICE TELL YOU YOU ARE FAILING TO OBEY.

WE'RE NOT DOING THAT.

AND I ALSO KNOW WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO HAVE EVERYBODY DO WHAT THEY WANTED TO AND HAVE THE POLICE NOT POLICE BECAUSE THERE WAS NO NEED BECAUSE THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE SAID PEOPLE COULD DO WHATEVER THEY WANTED TO DO.

WHAT THIS IS SAYING WE'RE GOING TO HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE.

THIS IS ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY.

BUT DOING IT IN A WAY WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO JAIL AND PEOPLE CAN HAVE THE WRAP AROUND SERVICES THAT WE KNOW THEY NEED.

THE SERVICES ALLOW THESE INDIVIDUALS TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE THEIR PLACE IN LIFE WHETHER IT IS NOT HAVING A GED, WHETHER IT'S NOT HAVING JOB TRAINING, PLACEMENT, WE CAN GET A JOB AND HAVE A CAREER.

WE ALSO TALK ABOUT INDIVIDUALS RIDING DIRT BIKES.

THE INDIVIDUALS YOU KNOW, OPEN CONTAINER.

PUBLIC DEFENDERS OFFICE TALKS ABOUT POOR MINORITY COMMUNITIES AND ALSO THE OPEN CONTAINERS THAT FOCUSES ON FEDERAL HILL AND HILL'S POINT THOSE ISSUES IN THOSE COMMUNITIES.

WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THE LAW IS APPLIED EQUAL TO EVERYBODY AND PLAN TO LOOK AT THE DATA TO FIND OUT WHAT IS HAPPENING BUT WE HAVE TO TRY SOMETHING.

AND YOU ARE RIGHT.

THIS IS THE MIDDLE GROUND WE'RE GOING TO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE AND DO IT IN A WAY THAT IS SMART AND DOESN'T LEAD TO MASS INCARCERATION.

>> I SAW THE MAYOR AND THE COMMISSIONER WERE AT YOUR ANNOUNCEMENT HOW DOES THIS AFFECT WHAT OFFICERS WILL BE DOING ON A DAILY BASIS AND DOES IT REQUIRE APPROVAL FROM THE FEDERAL COURT THAT IS OVERSEEING THE POLICE?

>> WELL, ACTUALLY IT DOESN'T REQUIRE ANY OVERSIGHT FROM THE FEDERAL COURT.

THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE CONSENT DECREE WE'VE TALKED TO THEM THROUGHOUT THE TIME PERIOD AND WE CONSULTED AND WORKED TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE BEEN TRAIN AND TRAINING TO GIVE CITATIONS AND CONSENT DECREE TALKS ABOUT THIS THE WAY TO DO POLICING.

SO THIS WE'RE DOING WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

IN TERMS OF THE POLICE BEING ACTIVE THEY MAKE THE DECISION WHAT CASE THEY WILL GIVE A CITATION TO AND WHAT CASE THEY MAY NOT DO ANYTHING AND A WARNING.

IT IS A THREE-PART PROCESS FOR THE POLICE.

ONE TO TRY TO TALK TO THE PERSON WARNING.

NUMBER TWO, THEY FEEL THE NEED TO GIVE A CITATION THEY CAN.

THEY WANT TO STOP THE INDIVIDUAL FROM HAVING THAT BEHAVIOR.

AND THREE, IF IT'S AN ARRESTABLE OFFENSE THEY FEEL THEY MUST AND THAT IS ONE THING THEY CAN DO AND THEY WILL MAKE THAT DECISION.

WE DON'T MAKE THE DECISION FOR THE POLICE HOWEVER WE'RE TOGETHER WITH THE POLICE.

>> Bill: WHAT HAPPENS TO JUVENILES?

IS THAT A DIFFERENT PROCESS HERE?

>> WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH JUVENILES THIS IS ONLY 18 AND ABOVE.

THE LAW CHANGED THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT CAN DO ANYTHING WITH JUVENILES IS THE DEPARTMENT OF JUVENILE SERVICES, DJS.

>> Bill: OUR THANKS TO IVAN BATES NOW YOUNG ATHLETES ARE BEING ENCOURAGED TO USE THEIR VOICE AND PLATFORM TO PROMOTE SOCIAL JUSTICE.

NANCY AMATTA HAS THE STORY.

>> IF YOU LOOK AT LET'S TALK ABOUT MY SPORT, A SPORT OF GYMNASTICS.

THE TOP ATHLETE IS NOT THE GREATEST GYMNAST OUT THERE.

>> DOMINIQUE DAUS SHARES HER VIEWS ON ATHLETES GETTING PAID FOR THEIR NAME, IMAGE AND LIKENESS.

THE DEBATE OVER WHETHER COLLEGE ATHLETES SHOULD GET A SLICE OF THE REVENUE PIE WAS AMONG THE TOPICS DISCUSSED AT THE SOCIAL JUSTICE ALLIANCE SYMPOSIUM AT BOWIE STATE UNIVERSITY.

>> THE MAIN PROBLEM IT IS AN INEQUITABLE ARRANGEMENT.

WHERE ATHLETES IN COLLEGE PARTICULARLY FOOTBALL AND MEN'S BASKETBALL AND NOW WOMEN'S BASKETBALL, PRODUCE THE BULK OF THE REVENUES FOR THE COLLEGE ATHLETIC INDUSTRY.

YET THEY DON'T SHARE IN THAT OTHER THAN SCHOLARSHIPS THAT PAY FOR TUITION, ROOM AND BOARD.

>> PANELISTS WHICH INCLUDED RECENT GRADUATE TURNED PROFESSIONAL VALLEY BALL PLAYER EATON THOMAS AND WNBA STAR MARISSA COLEMAN TALKED ABOUT HOW ATHLETES CAN PLAY A ROLE IN RACIAL AND SOCIAL JUSTICE.

>> WE ALL HAVE A PLATFORM AND A VOICE AND YOU ARE DOING A DISSERVICE NOT USING IT AS ATHLETES.

PEOPLE ARE WATCHING WHAT WE'RE DOING AND NO MATTER HOW BIG OR SMALL YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO IMPACT CHANGE.

>> AS A VOLLEYBALL PLAYER JONES MADE HEADLINES AND RECEIVED BACKLASH WHEN SHE TOOK A KNEE IN GAMES WITH THE NATIONAL ANTHEM WITH THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT.

>> NEBRASKA I GOT THE MOST.

AND REALIZING THAT THE AMOUNT OF BACKLASH IS MORE OF A GOOD THING BECAUSE THAT MEANS MY MESSAGE IS BEING HEARD BY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

IT'S INFLUENCING ME TO PUSH HARDER TO LET MY MESSAGE FLOW MORE.

>> NBA STAR THOMAS IS AN AUTHOR, MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKER AND SOCIAL JUSTICE ADVOCATE THROUGH APPEARANCES HE IS ENCOURAGING ATHLETES TO UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF THEIR VOICE.

>> SOMETIMES WHEN YOU ARE IN COLLEGE YOU ARE GOING THROUGH A ROUTINE OF PLAYING IN GAMES, PREPARING, FILM EVERYTHING LIKE THAT YOU DON'T REALIZE THE TREMENDOUS PLATFORM THAT YOU HAVE.

>> HE SAYS THE WOMEN IN THE WNBA HAVE MODELED HOW AN ENTIRE TEAM CAN TAKE A STAND.

>> WHEN THEY WORE THE BLACK LIVES MATTER SHIRTS AND HOW THINGS NEED TO CHANGE, THE INITIAL RESPONSE WAS FROM THE POWERS THAT BE DON'T DO THAT.

YOU WILL GET FINED AND PUNISHED.

THEN THEY ALL DID IT.

THEY CAN'T SUSPEND EVERYBODY BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ANYBODY TO PLAY THE GAME AND THAT IS THE POWER OF A COLLECTIVE VOICE.

>> A BLUEPRINT FOR HOW TO MOVE THE NEEDLE AND EFFECT CHANGE.

I'M NANCY AMATTA FOR "STATE CIRCLE".

>> Bill: TWO LONG TIME WASHINGTON INSIDERS HAVE CROSSED THE AISLE TO COLLABORATE ON A POPULAR WEEKLY VIDEO SERIES HOSTED BY THE TALL BUT SPY NEWS SITE.

JOINING US ARE FROM FORMER POLITICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT CLINTON AND CRAIG FULLER FORMER ADVISER TO PRESIDENTS REAGAN AND GEORGE HW BUSH.

WE SAW THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES PASS BY A BROAD AND BIPARTISAN MANNER A FAIRLY UNPOPULAR BILL TO INCREASE THE DEBT CEILING OR SUSPEND THE DEBT CEILING FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS.

START WITH Mr. FRUM, WHAT IS YOUR BIGGEST TAKEAWAY FROM WHAT WE SAW OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS?

>> MY BIGGEST TAKEAWAY IS DESPITE THE HYSTERIA ON CABLE TV OVER THE LAST FIVE MONTHS, PEOPLE WOULD HAVE LISTENED TO FRUM AND FULLER IN FEBRUARY YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN THEY WOULD COME TO A DEAL AND PASS THE DEBT CEILING.

MY BIGGEST FACULTY IS REALLY WHEN THE CRUTCH COMES IT'S STILL POSSIBLE TO GET BIPARTISAN ACHIEVEMENTS.

AND THIS WAS A BIPARTISAN ACHIEVEMENT.

YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE RONALD REAGAN DID WITH HIS BUDGET.

I THINK ACTUALLY AND IT'S LIKE BILL CLINTON DID WHEN WE PASSED NAFTA.

WE NEEDED VOTES FROM THE OTHER PARTY BUT BECAUSE THERE WAS DEALING IN GOOD FAITH BY PRESIDENT BIDEN AND BY SPEAKER KEVIN MCCARTHY THEY WERE ABLE TO GET THAT DEAL AND THAT IS GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY AND GREAT FOR BIDEN.

IT'S GREAT FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THE ECONOMY WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED THE GROWTH WHICH IS THE BEST THING THAT COULD HAPPEN TO A AN INCUMBENT.

IT'S ALSO GREAT FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THE BIGGEST THREAT TO HIS REELECTION IS A THIRD PARTY EFFORT BY NO LABELS GROUP THAT DOESN'T THINK YOU CAN GET BIPARTISAN ACHIEVEMENT AND THIS SHOWS THAT BIDEN HAS KEPT THE BIG PROMISE IN THE CAMPAIGN THAT HE WAS GOING TO GET BIPARTISAN ACHIEVEMENTS AND HE HAS A LONG LIST OF THEM.

>> Bill: INTERESTING.

Mr. FULLER YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> WELL, I AGREE THEY DID IT THE OLD-FASHIONED WAY WHICH IS ENCOURAGING WITH A BIPARTISAN VOTE.

SPEAKER McCARTHY WAS TAKING A LOT OF CREDIT AFTER THE VOTE PASSED FOR SOMETHING THAT WAS TOUGH THAT HE GOT DONE.

AND HE GOT IT DONE WITH MORE DEMOCRATIC VOTES THAN REPUBLICAN VOTES.

BUT THAT'S WHAT A BIPARTISAN MEASURE IS.

I THOUGHT HE WAS VERY SMART, TACTICALLY TO EARLY ON BRING THE REPUBLICANS TOGETHER IN A MEASURE TO RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS NO CHANCE OF IT PASSINGS IN THE SENATE OR THE PRESIDENT AGREEING TO IT IT PUT A MARKER ON THE TABLE AND THUS BEGAN A NEGOTIATION.

AND GOT A LOT OF NOISE AND IT WILL CONTINUE THROUGH THE WEEKEND OF UNHAPPY FREEDOM CAUCUS REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVES AND YOU'VE GOT SOME OF THE PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS COMPLAINING.

BUT AT THE END OF THE THE DAY THEY CAME TOGETHER AND DID WHAT THEY HAD TO DO I SUSPECT THERE'S NOT MUCH NOISE LEFT THEY WILL HOFF ON TO OTHER ISSUES.

>> Bill: GO AHEAD.

>> I THINK IN THE HOUSE, IT'S INTERESTING.

I MEAN, CRAIG SAID THERE ARE MORE DEMOCRATS THAN REPUBLICANS VOTED FOR PASSAGE.

BUT THE WAY THE HOUSEWORKS, THERE'S A VOTE TO CONSIDER WHICH IS REALLY THE CRITICAL VOTE THAT COMES FIRST.

IN THERE, McCARTHY HELD ALL BUT 29 OF HIS HOUSE VOTES AND GOT 52 DEMOCRATIC VOTES SO THEY WERE NECESSARY AND THAT ABOUT WHAT REAGAN DID IN 1981.

AND YOU KNOW, IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS BILLS, BECAUSE OF THE SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS A GREATER PERCENTAGE OF REPUBLICANS VOTED FOR CIVIL RIGHTS THAN DID DEMOCRATS.

LOOK, I THINK IS THIS GREAT FOR McCARTHY BECAUSE IT SHOWS HIM THAT IF HE DOES ACT IN THE NATIONAL INTEREST AS OPPOSED TO THE NARROW PARTY INTEREST, HE CAN OVERWHELM HIS RIGHT-WING NUTS.

FROM MY SIDE IT SHOWS THE NEW DEMOCRAT CAUCUS WHICH IS THE LARGEST CAUCUS IN THE HOUSE WHICH IS MODERATE DEMOCRATS THAT CAME OUT OF MY GROUP, THE HAS THE VOTES AND THE COUNCIL PROGRESSIVES MAKE THE NOISE.

>> ONE OF THOSE CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS RAN OVER SITS HERE WHERE I LIVE WHICH THE EASTERN SHORE VOTED AGAINST, AGAINST THE BILL LAST NIGHT.

EVEN THOUGH ALL THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE FROM MARYLAND DEMOCRATS BE THEY DEMOCRATS VOTED FOR IT.

SO INTERESTING TO FOOTNOTE.

>> Bill: WELL, AND CRAIG, THE PRICE FOR SPEAKER McCARTHY BECOMING THE SPEAKER AFTER ALL THOSE VOTES IN PART WAS HE WAS GOING TO SEND HIS SPEAKERSHIP ON THE EDGE OF A CLIFF BECAUSE THE BARRIER TO A CHALLENGE ESPECIALLY FROM WITHIN THE PARTY FROM THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PARTY, COULD BE A SINGLE REPRESENTATIVE OFFERING A MOTION TO VACATE.

IT'S BEEN THREATENED.

DOES THAT HAPPEN?

>> WELL, IT CERTAINLY CAN HAPPEN.

I'M A LITTLE MORE SANG WELL THAN MY FRIEND WHAT THIS MEANS FOR McCARTHY.

YES, IT WAS A SUCCESS PRESUMABLY THE SENATE ACTS LATE TODAY OR TOMORROW.

BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IT REALLY MEANS FOR McCARTHY GOING FORWARD.

I PERSONALLY WAS GLAD TO SEE HE FOUND A PATH FORWARD AND FOUND A BIPARTISAN PATH FORWARD.

BUT THE DEBT CEILING IS A UNIQUE ISSUE.

IT IS ALMOST DO OR DIE.

AND WHETHER THIS SENTIMENT OF LOOK WHAT WE CAN GET DONE CAN CONTINUE I DON'T KNOW.

THE RHETORIC LAST NIGHT WAS PRETTY TOUGH.

BEATING UP ON THE DEMOCRATS ON BIDEN ON THE BIGGEST CUT EVER IN THE HISTORY.

THE RHETORIC WAS STILL PRETTY HARSH.

AND SO I DIDN'T NOTICE MUCH OF A TONE CHANGE.

WE'LL SEE WHETHER THIS MEANS WHETHER HE STRENGTHENED HIS HAND ON OTHER ISSUES AROUND WHICH THERE HAS TO BE MORE BARGAINING THAT DON'T HAVE QUITE THE CONSEQUENCE OF FAILURE THAT THIS PARTICULAR MEASURE DID.

>> YOU KNOW, I SORT OF DISREGARD THE RHETORIC AROUND IT.

I THINK TO BE HONEST WITH YOU THAT WAS BY DESIGN FROM THE WHITE HOUSE IN A SENSE.

THEY WANTED McCARTHY TO GET CREDIT FOR IT.

BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO SCREW IT UP.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR THE PRESIDENT IS HAVE A STABLE ECONOMY AND THIS IS ESSENTIAL TO THAT.

SO YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM.

AS FAR AS McCARTHY IN THE CAUCUS IN ONE OF MY FORMER LIVES I RAN THE HOUSE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS.

AND I'VE HAD TO RUN THESE ELECTIONS FOR SPEAKER.

AND WE SAW THIS ORDEAL OF 15 VOTES FOR SPEAKER ON TELEVISION.

BUT THAT IS A LITTLE BIT MISLEADING.

BECAUSE ONLY ABOUT 20 PEOPLE WHO REALLY OPPOSED HIM ON THE HOUSE FLOOR IN THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS KEPT HIM FROM GETTING VOTES AND HE NEEDED ALMOST EVERY REPUBLICAN VOTE TO WIN IT IN THE HOUSE IN THE CAUCUS HE HAS 75-80%.

THEY MIGHT HAVE A VOTE TO DISCHARGE HIM AND UNLESS THEY WANT TO HAVE A DEMOCRATIC SPEAKER, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A SPEAKER THAT CAN BEAT SOMEBODY HAS 80% OF THEIR CAUCUS INSIDE THE CAUCUS.

I THINK YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT GET -- THERE MIGHT BE YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY MAY SAY I WANT TO VOTE ON McCARTHY AND THEY MAY PLAY AROUND A LITTLE BIT ON THE FLOOR BUT IN THE END I DON'T THINK HE IS IN DANGER.

>> ONE OTHER QUICK POINT AL AND I PLAY INSIDE BASEBALL ON THIS.

ONE THING I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH HIM ON AND THAT IS HOW THE PRESIDENT COMES OUT.

A PRESIDENT IS PROBABLY A DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF BLAME AND DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF CREDIT.

WHEN SOMETHING WORKS AND GETS DONE WHEN YOU PASS A MEASURE LIKE THIS THE PERSON IN WASHINGTON WHO HAS THE MOST TO GAIN AND HE GAINED IT WAS PRESIDENT BIDEN FOR BRINGING THESE PEOPLE TO THE TABLE AND FINDING A WAY TO GET IT DONE.

>> THERE IS ANOTHER WAY THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WON.

I THINK THE POINT THAT THE LEFT OF HIS CAUCUS WAS REDUCED TO 30 VOTES AGAINST AND IN THE MAINSTREAM OF THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS PREVAILED.

ALSO WILL HELP HIM AS HE STARTS MESSAGING FOR THE 2024 ELECTION.

BECAUSE THE GREATEST DANGER FOR DEMOCRATS IS THAT THE SMALL PART OF OUR PARTY ON THE LEFT WHICH UNLIKE THE REPUBLICAN RIGHT IS NOT EVIL IT JUST MISGUIDED, TAKES STANDS THAT HURT DEMOCRATS IN DISTRICTS AND AREAS WHERE WE NEED TO WIN.

LIKE IN YO SUBURBAN AREAS AND THAT'S YOU KNOW, WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE HELD THE HOUSE IF THAT HAD BEEN THE CASE IN 2022.

BIDEN IS ALSO BENEFITED IN THE SENSE HOW HE WILL HAVE MORE FREEDOM TO MESSAGE THE WAY HE WANTS TO MESSAGE GOING INTO THE 2024 CAMPAIGN.

>> Bill: GENTLEMEN IF I COULD JUMP IN FOR A MINUTE I WANT TO BRING THIS BACK TO MARYLAND POLITICS WHICH WE FOCUS ON IN THIS PROGRAM.

YOU BOTH HAVE WHITE HOUSE EXPERIENCE.

THERE IS A CURRENT GOVERNOR OF MARYLAND, WES MOORE, WHO IS FREQUENTLY MENTIONED AS A FUTURE PART OF THE NATIONAL POLITICAL TICKET.

SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.

FORMER GOVERNOR LARRY HOGAN HAS ASPIRED TO DO THAT AND MAY CONTINUE TO ASPIRE TO DO THAT.

DO YOU SEE A PATH GOOD PATH FOR EITHER OF THOSE GENTLEMEN?

>> IF WE ARE TALKING 2024 PROBABLY NOT.

I THINK WES MOORE HAS GOT A BRILLIANT FUTURE.

IS A VERY REALISTIC AND COULD BE A VERY STRONG NATIONAL CANDIDATE.

AND I THINK BUT HIS FIRST CHORE IS TO BECOME A GOOD GOVERNOR OF MARYLAND.

GOVERNORS MAKE THE BEST PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES.

BUT THE KEY TO THAT IS BEING A GOOD GOVERNOR IN YOUR STATE.

IF YOU CAN'T GET YOUR STATE BEHIND YOU, AND IF YOU HAVE YOUR MARTIN O'MALLEY SHOWED IF YOU YOUR SUCCESSOR LOSES, IT PROBABLY ISN'T A GREAT MATTER OF STRENGTH.

FOR LARRY HOGAN I JUST CRAIG MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW, I SEE NO PATH IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

AND IF HE WANTS -- IF HE IS TRUE TO HIS WORD AND SAY HE WANTS TO DEFEAT DONALD TRUMP AT ALL COSTS I DON'T THINK HE WILL RUN AS A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE.

I THINK YOU KNOW, MAYBE AFTER FOUR YEARS OF CHANGE, FOUR MORE YEARS OF CHANGE IN 2028 HE MIGHT BE A CANDIDATE.

BUT I SUSPECT THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN HIS BEST YEAR AND JUST NOT THERE.

>> CRAIG?

>> I SIT ON THE SAME PLACE.

I MET WES MOORE LITERALLY ON THE STREETS OF EASTON AS HE WAS CAMPAIGNING WITH A FRIEND OF MINE.

AND HE STOPPED UNRUSHED WE HAD A WONDERFUL CONVERSATION.

AND HE WALKED AWAY AND I THOUGHT WOW THIS IS ONE IMPRESSIVE CANDIDATE AND I STILL FEEL THAT WAY.

I THINK HE COULD BE AN IMPRESSIVE GOVERNOR BUT AL IS RIGHT HE NEEDS TO BE GOVERNOR.

AND SOMETHING ELSE THAT COMES ALONG WITH IT.

THE REASON THAT GOVERNORS MAKE GOOD PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES IS THEY ARE THE HEAD OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF THEIR STATE.

THEY MAKE DECISIONS THEY HAVE TO BUILD COMPROMISES THEY LEARN A LOT ABOUT CAMPAIGNING STATE-WIDE.

SO IN A BIG STATE LIKE MARYLAND, A LOT OF EXPERIENCE CAME FROM THE CAMPAIGN.

WES MOORE IS ONLY GOING TO GET BETTER IN MY VIEW AS GOVERNOR AND HE IS YOUNG ENOUGH INDIVIDUAL THAT HE CAN HAVE A FEW SHOTS AT THIS IF HE CHOOSES TO.

I PERSONALLY HOPE THAT HE DOESN'T GET PUSHED TOO FAR TOO FAST TO GRAB THAT NEXT RING THERE BECAUSE I THINK HE CAN MAKE A REAL CONTRIBUTION AS GOVERNOR.

LARRY HOGAN I WISHED HE HAD RUN.

I THOUGHT IT WAS PROBABLY A LONGSHOT BUT HE IS THE PERSON IN OUR PARTY WHO SHOWS A DIMENSION AND A FACE THAT PEOPLE NEED TO SEE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

YOU CAN GUESS I'M MORE INCLINED WITH HIS VIEWS THAN Mr. TRUMP'S VIEWS BUT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE MANY CANDIDATES NOW IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY.

IT MAKES IT PROBABLY MORE DIFFICULT FOR GOVERNOR HOGAN TO JUMP IN AT THIS POINT.

ALTHOUGH, IF HE WANTS IT I HOPE HE HAS ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE IN LARGE PUBLIC OFFICE, NATIONAL OFFICE PERHAPS FOR REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT DOWN THE ROAD.

>> Bill: YOU CAN FIND MORE INSIGHTS FROM AL AND CRAIG AT THE WEBSITE OF THE TALBOT SPY NEWS SITE, TERRIFIC NEWS SITE ON THE EASTERN SHORE TALBOT SPY.ORG.

GENTLEMEN WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> COLLEGE GRADUATION SEASON IS A TIME FOR MARYLAND POLITICAL LEADERS TO PICK UP HONORARY DEGREES AND OFFER WORDS OF WISDOM TO NEW GRADUATES.

HERE IS A SAMPLING OF SOME RECENT SPEECHES.

>> TO EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU, I SAY CONGRATULATIONS.

AND ESPECIALLY TO THIS CLASS OF 2023.

[APPLAUSE] [CHEERING] I'M THANKFUL FOR Y'ALL BECAUSE YOU ARE THE PROMISE KEEPERS.

YOU'RE THE ONES WHO SAID TODAY WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

AND DESPITE THE FACT FOR MANY OF YOU LIFE GOT IN THE WAY, DESPITE THE FACT THAT FOR MANY OF YOU THE JOURNEY WAS NOT ALWAYS EASY OR SIMPLE OR STRAIGHT.

YOU'RE HERE.

YOU ARE THE PROMISE KEEPERS AND YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GIVE US HOPE NOT JUST FOR WHY TODAY IS SO IMPORTANT BUT WHY TOMORROW SHOULD BE SO HOPEFUL.

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE CLASS OF 2023 AND ALL YOU CONTINUE TO DO.

>> THE PRESSURE TO RESOLVE OUR LOCAL AND GLOBAL CHALLENGES IS INCREDIBLE.

I'M CONFIDENT EACH OF YOU IS PREPARED AND COMMITTED TO THE REAL WORK AHEAD.

IT MAY SOUND CORNY BUT I LOVE PUBLIC SERVICE IT HAS GIVEN ME MY PURPOSE AND SHOWING ME THAT I CAN DO THINGS THAT I NEVER THOUGHT WERE POSSIBLE.

AS YOU BEGIN TO CONSIDER THE NEXT FIVE OR 10 YEARS OF YOUR LIFE, I WANT TO BE THE FIRST ONE TO TELL YOU THAT WE ARE TRYING TO BUILD SOMETHING TRULY SPECIAL RIGHT HERE IN MARYLAND.

RIGHT NOW OUR STATE GOVERNMENT IS FILLED WITH HISTORY MAKING PUBLIC SERVANTS LIKE GOVERNOR WES MOORE, ATTORNEY GENERAL ANTHONY BROWN AND COMPTROLLER BROOKE LEAR MAN.

AND WE NEED YOUR HELP TO BUILD A STATE THAT'S ALL OF US CAN BE PROUD OF.

>> BUT I LIKE TO TELL YOUNG PEOPLE THAT IN POLITICS, NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE AND NOTHING IS INEVITABLE BUT IT'S ONLY JUST POSSIBLE THROUGH EDUCATION AND ORGANIZING AND MOBILIZING PEOPLE FOR CHANGE.

AND ANYTHING THAT SEEMS INEVITABLE WAS ONCE CONSIDERED IMPOSSIBLE.

SO YOU AND YOUR CAREERS BY YOUR CREATIVITY AND YOUR COLLEGE YOUR COMPASSION, AND YOUR EDUCATION, WILL REGULARLY MAKE THE IMPOSSIBLE INEVITABLE IN THE LIVES OF OTHER CITIZENS AND OTHER FAMILIES.

AND THAT'S THE FIRST REASON I WANT YOU TO BE OPTIMISTIC TODAY.

>> Bill: AND THAT IS "STATE CIRCLE" FOR THIS WEEK.

JOIN US EVERY WEEK AT THIS TIME FOR THE LATEST ON MARYLAND'S POLITICAL STAGE.

REMEMBER YOU CAN SEE VIDEOS OF OUR RECENT PROGRAMS THEY ARE AT VIDEO.MEMBER MPT.ORG AND FOLLOW US ON TWITTER ON MPT NEWS.

WE'RE BACK MONDAY WITH "DIRECT CONNECTION" MONDAY EVENING LIVE AT 7:00 P.M. AND FOR ALL OF US AT MPT THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND WE'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE MONDAY.

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