THERE REALLY IS A NEED FOR LOCAL NEWS, STRONG AND INDEPENDENT AND DELIVERS DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

THAT'S WHAT'S NEEDED.

>> OF COURSE THE WASHINGTON POST HAS ON ITS MAST HEAD THESE DAYS, THE PHRASE DEMOCRACY DIES IN DARKNESS, WHICH IS SORT OF A PESSIMISTIC WAY OF PHRASING IT.

MAYBE IT'S DEMOCRACY THRIVES IN SUN LITE SUN LIGHT.

YOU ARE BRINGING SUNLIGHT TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT, STATE GOVERNMENT IN GOVERNMENT.

WHAT HAS BEEN THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT OVER THE PAST YEAR?

ANY STORIES OR IMPACT THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO HIGHLIGHT?

AND WE TOOK A LOT OF TIME WRITIN THE NATION STATEMENT AND THE MISSION AT THE END OF THE DAY IS TWO FOLD AND IS TO HELP THE COMMUNITIES WE SERVE THROUGH OUR JOURNALISM JOURNALISM PER SE IS NOT THE END IN ITS, IT'S THE MEAN TO AN END, TO HAVE A POSITIVE IMPACT, DEFINING DEMOCRACY DEFINING IMPACTS AND THE SECOND PART OF THE MISSION IS AROUND CREATING A MODEL THAT PERHAPS OTHERS COULD EMULATE THAT SHOWS SUSTAINABILITY.

WE ARE EXPERIMENTING DIFFERENTLY WITH THE PAY WALL BUT IN TERMS OF IMPACT THAT HAS BEEN THE MOST GRAT TYING THING FOR US INCREDIBLE THE DISTANCE THERE IS BETWEEN WRITING A STORY AND HAVING A POSITIVE IMPACT.

ONE EXAMPLE WE WROTE A STORY ABOUT THE WOMAN WHOSE SNAP BENEFITS WERE STOLEN AND THE LAW WAS THAT BASICALLY THEY DIDN'T GET REIMBURSED IF YOUR SNAP BENEFITS ARE STOLEN.

IT'S RELATIVELY EASY.

THERE IS A LOT OF STUFF GOING ON IN THE DARK ON THE DARK WEB TO STEAL BENEFITS.

WE WROTE THE STORY.

WE ACTUALLY TRACKED DOWN CCTV FUTURAGE OF THE PEOPLE STEALING THE MONEY THAT HAS RESULTED IN FEDERAL LAW CHANGES AND MARYLAND WAS QUICK TO ADOPT THAT WHERE THOSE BENEFITS ARE BEING REIMBURSED TO PEOPLE WHO HAD THEM STOLEN.

THAT'S A POSITIVE IMPACT STORY THERE ARE STORIES WE WROTE, A DAY ONE STORY ABOUT THE OLDEST LIVING JANE DOE, ABDUCTED AS A CHILD.

SHE STARTED BELIEVING SHE WASN'T WHO SHE WAS.

SHE DIDN'T HAVE AN ORIGINAL NAME OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

I THINK SHE IS IN HER 60s.

AND SHE HAD HIT A DEAD END TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO SHE WAS AND ONE OF OUR REPORTERS BASICALLY DOGGEDLY AND THIS IS HOW SHE DESCRIBED IT, FIGURED OUT, GOT HER RECORDS, FIGURED OUT WHO SHE WAS AND THIS MADE AN IMPACT.

TO HER PERSONALLY.

SHE COULD GET A PASSPORT, FOUND HER REAL NAME, FOUND HER SISTER AND HAD A PROFOUND IMPACT ON HER AND TURNED INTO A LIFETIME MOVIE >> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BUSINESS SIDE.

75,000 SUBSCRIBERS, HOW MANY OF THOSE ARE ON A PAY A DOLLAR GET SIX MONTHS INTRODUCTORY OFFER.

>> I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT NUMBERS BUT A LARGE CHUNK OF THEM ARE ON THAT OFFER.

THE FIRST SET OF THE PEOPLE STARTED CONVERTING TO FULL PRICE ABOUT A MONTH AGO AND WE ARE REALLY ENCOURAGED BY THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE TAKING US UP WHAT IS.

>> WHAT IS FULL PRICE BECAUSE I TRIED TO FIND IT ON THE SITE AND IT'S NOT APPARENT.

IF SOMEBODY JUST WANTS TO START WITH A FULL PRICE ONE-YEAR SUBSCRIPTION, WHAT DOES IT COST?

>> WHEN WE LAUNCHED, IF YOU BOUGHT A SUBSCRIPTION THE FIRST MONTHS OF THE LAUNCH, YOU COULD BUY A SUBSCRIPTION FOR $155 FOR A FULL YEAR.

IF YOU DID IT MONTHLY, YOU PAID A LITTLE MORE.

IT WAS A LITTLE OVER $200.

>> THE BUSINESS MODEL IS NOT JUST SUBSCRIPTIONS, YOU ARE HOPING FOR BEYOND PHILANTHROPIC CONTRIBUTIONS, EVENTS, HOW IS ALL THAT STUFF GOING?

>> WELL, WE JUST STARTED WE HAD AN EVENT IN CANTON, CLOSE THIS A THOUSAND PEOPLE SHOWED UP FOR THAT.

WE HAD 50 WINERIES.

WE ARE TRYING TO DO LIFESTYLE THINGS AND ALSO IMPORTANT THINGS THOUGHT LEADERSHIP.

SO WE HAVE AN EVENT PLANNED IN OCTOBER, OCTOBER 10, WE CALL IT OUR IMPACT MARYLAND.

IT'S REALLY ABOUT BRINGING LEADERS AND BUSINESS IN THE COMMUNITY AND POLITICIANS TOGETHER TO REALLY TALK ABOUT HOW DO YOU HAVE A POSITIVE IMPACT ON MARYLAND?

HOW DO YOU MOVE THE STATE FORWARD AND WE ARE GETTING REALLY GOOD SIGN-UP ON THAT SO THAT'S GOING WELL.

AND YOU KNOW, OUR MODEL IS A BIT OF A HYBRID MODEL.

SUBSCRIPTIONS WILL REPRESENT ABOUT HALF OUR INCOME, ADVERTISING 20-25%, AND 20% FROM THE EVENTS AND THE BALANCE FROM PHILANTHROPY.

I CANNOT SEE THE ECONOMICS WORKING WITHOUT A MIX OF ALL THOSE REVENUE STREAMS BECAUSE IT'S EXPENSIVE PROVIDING LOCAL NEWS AT THE LEVEL AND BREADTH THAT WE WANT TO DO.

>> JEFF: IN THE OLD DAYS OF THE NEWSPAPERS, YOU WOULD LAY OUT THE PAPERS BASED ON WHAT YOU THOUGHT WERE THE IMPORTANT STORIES.

YOU PRINT IT AND DIDN'T GET FEEDBACK.

IN THE DIGITAL AWJ, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW WHAT PEOPLE ARE CLICKING ON, WHAT THEY'RE READING, FOR HOW LONG THEY'RE READING IT.

MY QUESTION IS HOW MUCH OF IT IS ABOUT THE ORIOLES AND THE RAVENS?

WHAT REALLY DRIVES PEOPLE TO CLICK ON STORIES?

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING MIX AND YES, YOU ARE RIGHT.

I AND ALL OUR SENIOR STAFF HAVE SOFTWARE.

WE KNOW EVERY SINGLE STORY, HOW IT'S PERFORMING IN REAL TIME.

THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT PERFORMS, WHICH REALLY ISN'T, IF YOU REFLECT ON IT, IT ISN'T THAT SURPRISING, IS FOOD.

EVERYONE WANTS TO KNOW WHERE THEY SHOULD BE GOING OUT, WHAT THEY SHOULD BE EATING, DIFFERENT PLACES.

THEY WANT TO TRY.

AND I THINK THIS IS A POST-PANDEMIC THING AS WELL.

PEOPLE WANT TO SOCIALIZE.

SO I TOTALLY SEE THAT.

AND YES, ORIOLES AND RAVENS IS VERY BIG.

WE HAVE MADE A BIG INVESTMENT.

WE HAVE ABOUT A DOZEN OR SO REPORTERS NOW AND EDITORS COVERING PROFESSIONAL SPORTS ALONE.

AND WE ARE LOOKING FOR A COUPLE MORE PEOPLE.

BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, THE BIG STORIES, WHEN JUSTIN FENTON WRITES A STORY ABOUT ABC CAPITAL OR ANY STORY, THAT IS TYPICALLY THE NUMBER ONE PERFORMING STORY OF THE DAY OR THE WEEK.

>> JEFF: IS IT TOO SOON TO TELL IF THIS IS GOING TO WORK?

AS THE GUY WHO WROTE THE BUSINESS PLAN?

YOU ARE AT THE PHASE WHERE YOU'VE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY.

YOU'VE BUILT A GREAT NEWS ORGANIZATION AND YOU ARE TRYING TO CONVERT PEOPLE TO PAID SUBSCRIPTIONS.

AT SOME POINT, WHATEVER THE BURN RATE IS, BASED ON THE INITIAL FUNDING, YOU HAVE TO BREAK EVEN AT SOME POINT.

HOW OPTIMISTIC ARE YOU THAT THAT HAPPENS IN THREE, FOR YEARS OR WHATEVER YOU PLANNED?

>> YEAH, SO IN TERMS OF BURN RATE, THIS IS PROBABLY HOW OUR HIGHEST BURN RATE YEAR BUT THE REVENUE BASE IS BUILDING STRONGLY.

I THINK WE ARE GOING TO BEAT OUR REVENUE TARGETS FOR THE YEAR SO THE BURN RATE WON'T BE AS BAD AS PLANNED.

AND THIS WAS COMPLETELY INTENTIONAL.

WE WANTED TO BUILD A NEW ROOM, BUILD A BRAND, SHOW PEOPLE THAT WE HAD GREAT JOURNALISM THAT WAS WORTH PAYING FOR AND SUPPORTING.

OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS, THE BURN RATE WILL DECLINE AS OUR REVENUE CONTINUES TO BUILD AND THE SUBSCRIBERS GROW.

THERE IS NOTHING I HAVE SEEN IN THE PAST YEAR SINCE WE LAUNCHED THAT MAKES ME CHANGE MY MIND THAT THIS CAN BE A SUSTAINABLE MODEL.

AS I SAID EARLIER, WE ARE A LITTLE AHEAD ON OUR METRICS.

SUBSCRIBERS ARE RUNNING A LITTLE AHEAD.

ADVERTISING IS RUNNING SIGNIFICANTLY AHEAD.

AND THE EVENTS BUSINESS IS BUILDING VERY NICELY.

I FEEL VERY GOOD.

WILL IT BE 100,000 SUBSCRIBERS OR 125 SUBSCRIBERS THAT I ORIGINALLY ENVISIONED?

MAYBE NOT.

AND WE'LL ADJUST ACCORDINGLY.

BUT I THINK WE WILL GET TO SUSTAINABILITY.

>> JEFF: IF SOMEBODY WATCHING US WANTS TO SUBSCRIBE AND SUPPORT THE BANNER, WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT?

>> GO TO WWW.THEBALTIMOREBANNER .COM.

YOU CAN SUBSCRIBE RIGHT THERE AND MAKE A DONATION.

>> JEFF: WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

NOW EMPOWERING VETERANS AND ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY FAMILIES WITH OUR SALUTE TO VETERANS.

HERE IS NANCY YAMATA.

>> THERE IS A LEVEL OF ISOLATION ACROSS THE SPECTRUM WITH ACTIVE DUTY OR VETERANS.

>> Reporter: SHE IS TRYING TO CLOSE THE GAP AND EMPOWER AND CONNECT PEOPLE.

THE CHAPTER DIRECTOR OF BLUE STAR FAMILIES OF BALTIMORE AND CHESAPEAKE REGION.

>> THE GOAL FOR BLUE STAR FAMILIES IS TO PROVIDE THESE THRIVING COMMUNITIES OF MUTUAL SUPPORT AND CONNECTIVITY.

IT IS DONE THROUGH A SERIES OF PROGRAMS, EVENTS, COMMUNITY OUTREACH.

>> Reporter: EVERYTHING FROM COFFEE SOCIALS TO BOOK CLUBS AND BEACH CLEANUPS LIKE BLUE STAR WELCOME WEEK.

EVENTS THAT BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER.

BLUE STAR FAMILIES IS COMMITTED TO ADDRESSING THE MOST PRESSING CHALLENGES FACING ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY FAMILIES AND VETERANS.

>> WHETHER IT'S NATIONAL GUARD, THE SERVICE, VETERANS, ACTIVE DUTY, WE WANT TO KNOW HOW IS LIFE GOING FOR YOU.

>> Reporter: THEY DO THAT THROUGH THEIR ANNUAL MILITARY FAMILY LIFESTYLE SURVEY WHICH IS BEING CONDUCTED RIGHT NOW.

THE LATEST RESULTS SHOW MANY ARE FACING FINANCIAL PRESSURES.

>> SO THOSE PRESSURES INCLUDE THE RISING COST OF FOOD, GASOLINE, STUDENT LOAN DEBT AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO PAY THINGS BACK.

MAYBE SOME PCS RELOCATION COSTS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN MET.

>> Reporter: AT THE TOP OF THE LIST OF CONCERNS?

MILITARY SPOUSE UNEMPLOYMENT AND UNDEREMPLOYMENT.

>> WE PARTNER WITH A VARIETY OF BUSINESSES AND ORGANIZATIONS.

THERE ARE WEB CERTIFICATIONS AND OTHER CERTIFICATIONS THAT EXIST WITHIN BLUE STAR CAREERS THAT HELP THE MILITARY SPOUSE.

WE ARE STRONGER TOGETHER AND MANY HANDS MAKE LIGHT WORK.

THE RESOURCE POINTING AND HELPING PEOPLE IN THAT WAY IS INVALUABLE.

>> I'M FOCUSING ON BLACK AND OTHER VETERANS OF COLOR.

>> Reporter: AFTER CONNECTING WITH BLUE STAR FAMILIES AND SEEING THE RESULTS FROM THEIR ANNUAL SURVEY, VETERAN Dr. XAVIER HELPED BLACK VETERANS REACH THEIR PERSONAL AND PROFESSIONAL GOALS.

HIS MESSAGE TO VETERANS?

>> UPLIFT YOURSELF.

MEANING NO ONE IS GOING TO COME SAVE YOU, NO ONE IS GOING TO COME AND KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR AND SAY HEY, DO YOU NEED THIS?

YOU HAVE TO UPLIFT YOURSELF.

GET TO A LEVEL OF POSITIVE SELF PERCEPTION SO YOU ARE WILLING TO ASK QUESTIONS, YOU ARE WILLING TO RECEIVE HELP BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING.

>> Reporter: BLUE STAR FAMILIES AND ORGANIZATIONS THAT WORK WITH THEM ARE HELPING VETERANS AND ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY REALIZE THAT NO ONE NEEDS TO SUFFER ALONE.

>> RELY ON OTHERS, VET THEM, FIND THOSE THAT YOU CAN TRUST AND LEAN ON THEM, BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST UPLIFT YOURSELF.

>> WE BELIEVE THAT WE ARE STRONGER TOGETHER AND WHEN WE LINK ARMS AND WORK TOGETHER, GREAT THINGS CAN HAPPEN.

>> JEFF: A SPLIT DECISION FROM MARYLAND'S TOP COURT, THE SUPREME COURT RULING THAT BALLISTIC TESTS ARE NOT ACCURATE ENOUGH TO LINK A BULLET TO A SPECIFIC GUN.

WHAT WILL BE THE EMPACT IN MARYLAND COURTROOMS?

WE SPOKE WITH JEFF GILLER AND CHIEF ATTORNEY IN THE FORENSICS DIVISION OF THE OFFICE OF THE PUBLIC DEFENDER.

>> IN THIS CASE, THE COURT REALLY TOOK A DEEP DIVE INTO THE RESEARCH BASES THAT PURPORTED TO ESTABLISH THE RELIABILITY OF FIREARMS AND TOOL MARKS EXAMINATION.

THAT SHOULD BE DONE FOR EVERY FORENSIC FIELD BECAUSE IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT EXERCISE.

AND BASICALLY THEY AGREED WITH THE SCIENTISTS AND THE RESEARCHERS WHO ARE CLEAR THAT THE SCIENCE SIMPLY DOES NOT SUPPORT MATCHING A BULLET OR A CARTRIDGE CASE TO A PARTICULAR GUN.

THE SCIENCE JUST ISN'T THERE I THINK AN IMPORTANT POINT THE COURT IS TRYING TO MAKE IS THAT WE NEED TO TAKE THE ACTUAL SCIENCE OR LACK THEREOF VERY SERIOUSLY, RIGHT, BEFORE WE ADMIT SO CALLED EXPERT TESTIMONY.

AND TO DO THAT WE NEED TO LISTEN TO RESEARCHERS ANDMAN STREAM SCIENTISTS.

THEY HAVE THE TOOLS AND THE EXPERIENCE TO UNDERSTAND IF A METHOD IS RELIABLE OR VALID.

>> Jeff: THE MAJORITY OPINION FROM THE COURT AND IT WAS A DIVIDED COURT DID NOT SAY WE ARE NOT ALLOWING ANY FORENSIC BALLISTIC EXPERT TESTIMONY GOING FORWARD?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

WHAT THEY SAID-- WHAT THEY ESSENTIALLY SAID IS THAT THE SCIENCE DOESN'T SUPPORT MATCHIG A BULLET OR CARTRIDGE CASE TO A GUN.

HOWEVER AN EXAMINER CAN TESTIFY THAT SPENT AMMUNITION IS "CONSISTENT WITH HAVING BEEN FIRED WITH A PARTICULAR FIREARM."

I THINK THE ISSUE THAT'S GOING TO COME OUT OR COME UP IS WHAT DO THEY MEAN BY CONSISTENT WITH, RIGHT?

BUT I THINK THE COURT'S ANALYSIS OF THE DEEP FLAWS IN THE METHOD, THE LACK OF RELIABLE RESEARCH AND THE, FRANKLY, THE LOGIC OF THE DECISION, REQUIRES THAT EXAMINERS CAN TESTIFY ONLY THAT SPENT AMMUNITION IS CONSISTENT WITH A TYPE OF GUN, NOT WITH A PARTICULAR GUN.

NOT A PARTICULAR GUN AT ISSUE IN THE CASE.

>> Jeff: I'M TRYING TO PLAY FORWARD HOW THIS WOULD PLAY OUT IN COURT.

COULD THEY SAY THAT IT'S NOT INCONSISTENT?

SO PROSECUTOR MIGHT SAY, YOU KNOW,COULD-- YOU CAN'T SAY, IF I'M GETTING THIS RIGHT, WAS THIS BULLET FIRED BY THIS GUN?

BUT YOU CAN SAY COULD IT HAVE BEEN FIRED FROM THIS GUN AND CAN WE EXCLUDE OTHER GUNS?

>> YES.

THE ABSOLUTELY THE METHOD IS VERY GOOD AT EXCLUDING GUNS VIA CLASS CHARACTERISTICS, FOR EXAMPLE, THE CALIBER OR THE SHAPE OF THE FIRING PIN IMPRESSION.

THOSE ARE CLASS CHARACTERISTICS AND THE TERM THAT THE COURT USED, WHICH IS CONSISTENT WITH, IT WAS INTENDED TO DIFFERENTIATE THE OPINIONS THAT FIREARMS EXAMINERS USED TO GIVE, WHICH WAS HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED TO.

SO THAT, IN MY MIND, NECESSARILY MEANS THAT AT BEST AN EXAMINER CAN PLACE A QUESTIONED GUN IN A POPULATION OF GUNS THAT MAY HAVE FIRED THE SPENT AMMUNITION.

>> Jeff: YOU HAVE COLLEAGUES IN COURTROOMS ACROSS THE STATE EVERY DAY.

HOW FAST IS A BIG CHANGE LIKE THIS FILTERED DOWN TO THE TRIAL COURTS?

>> THERE IS A LOT OF TALK RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN MY TEAM-- I HAVE A SMALL TEAM OF LAWYERS THAT HANDLE FORENSIC ISSUES FOR THE PUBLIC DEFENDER'S OFFICE.

WE ARE TEAMING UP NOT ONLY WITH OURSELVES BUT PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN TRAIN LAWYERS ON HOW TO ARGUE COURTS ABOUT THE GUARD RAILS AND THE LIMITATIONS THAT NEED TO BE PLACED UPON THIS TYPE OF FORENSIC EVIDENCE.

SO IT'S AN ONGOING PROCESS, BUT WE ARE-- WE STARTED THAT PROCESS RIGHT NOW.

>> Jeff: NOW WHAT ABOUT PAST CASES?

I MEAN ARE THERE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO WERE CONVICTED, IN YOUR OPINION, ON THE BASIS OF AN EXPERT SAYING YES, THIS BULLET CAME FROM THIS GUN?

>> YEAH, WE CAN'T EVER FORGET THAT THIS TYPE OF EVIDENCE HAS BEEN THE BACKBONE OF COUNTLESS PROSECUTIONS, RIGHT?

AND WE MUST NOW TAKE A VERY HARD AND SERIOUS LOOK AT THOSE CASES TO MAKE SURE THAT NONE OF THEM WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS.

THINK ABOUT BITE MARK EVIDENCE, THINK ABOUT HAIR COMPARISON EVIDENCE WHICH ARE PATTERN MATCHING DISCIPLINES LIKE FIREARM EXAMINATION.

THEY WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR COUNTLESS WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS AND DECADES AND DECADES OF WRONGFUL PRISON TIME BEFORE THEY WERE DETERMINED THAT THEY WERE, FRANKLY, JUNK SCIENCE.

WE DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN WITH FIREARMS.

SO YEAH, THAT'S GOING TO BE A BIG PART OF WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN NOW.

TAKE A SERIOUS LOOK AT THE PAST CASES.

>> Jeff: WHERE DO YOU START?

I MEAN IT SOUND LIKE A LOT OF CASES ARE GOING TO BE CALLED INTO QUESTION.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT RETROACTIVELY, HOW DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH WEIGHT A JURY GAVE TO THIS TESTIMONY OR THAT TESTIMONY?

>> YEAH, YEAH, THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.

THERE IS ALWAYS A STANDARD OF WAS IT HARMLESS ERROR, RIGHT?

BUT YOU GOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS TYPE OF EVIDENCE, SAYING THIS WAS THE GUN, THIS WAS THE MURDER WEAPON, IS CRITICAL, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER FORENSIC EVIDENCE.

JURORS TAKE THAT TYPE OF TESTIMONY VERY, VERY SERIOUSLY.

SO THE WAY YOU DO IT, IF YOU GET THE TRANSCRIPTS, YOU READ THROUGH THE TRANSCRIPTS.

YOU READ THE ARGUMENTS THE PROSECUTOR MADE, THE ARGUMENTS THE DEFENSE MADE, YOU LOOK AT THE RECORD CONTAINING THE TRANSCRIPT AND YOU MAKE A DECISION HOW MUCH OF A PART IN THIS CONVICTION DID FIREARMS EVIDENCE PLAYED AND I SUSPECT IT PLAYED A BIG PART IN MANY CASES.

>> Jeff: IS THIS PART OF A TREND?

ARE OTHER STATES CHANGING THE WAY THEY DEAL WITH THIS EVIDENCE AS THE FEDERAL JUDICIARY LOOKING AT IT?

>> YES.

THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL TRIAL COURT DECISIONS THAT HAVE BEEN LIMITING, PLACING LIMITS ON FIREARM EXAMINATION TESTIMONY.

IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING HOWEVER, THAT THIS IS THE FIRST APPELLATE COURT DECISION IN THE COUNTRY.

AND THAT'S CRITICAL BECAUSE THE APPELLATE COURT DECISIONS PRODUCE PRECEDENT.

AND THEY PROVIDE INSTRUCTIONS AND GUIDANCE TO TRIAL COURTS ABOUT HOW TO APPLY EVIDENCE, HOW TO UNDERSTAND WHEN TO ADMIT FORENSIC EVIDENCE AND WHEN TO NOT ADMIT FORENSIC EVIDENCE.

THIS IS GOING TO HAVE A WIDE RANGING IMPLICATION NOT ONLY FOR OUR TRIAL COURTS BUT TRIAL COURTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> Jeff: WE HAVE ALL SEEN TRIAL COURTS ON TELEVISION IN THE MOVIES, HOW IS IT DIFFERENT IN REAL TIEF LIFE IF SOMEBODY IS ON TRIAL FOR SHOOTING OR KILLING, THERE IS FORENSIC EVIDENCE, BALLISTIC EVIDENCE.

THERE IS AN EXPERT ON THE STAND.

WOULDN'T THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY BE CHALLENGING AND HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHALLENGE THE WITNESSES CONCLUSIONS, QUALIFICATION EVEN BEFORE THE DECISION?

>> THEY ABSOLUTELY HAVE THAT RESPONSIBILITY AND THAT RIGHT.

HOWEVER, IN MY ESTIMATION, WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SCIENCE, JURORS, WHEN THEY JUST HEAR THAT IT'S A FORENSIC EXPERT, WHEN THEY HEAR FORENSIC EVIDENCE IS GOING TO BE PRESENTED, IT'S ALMOST AT THAT POINT MANY PEOPLE MAKE THE DECISION THAT THE GUY MUST BE GUILTY BECAUSE SCIENCE SAYS HE'S GUILTY, RIGHT?

SO THAT'S WHY IT'S CRITICAL THAT JUDGES TAKE THEIR GATE KEEPING RESPONSIBILITY BEFORE THE EVIDENCE GETS TO A JUROR, BECAUSE ONLY EVIDENCE WITH A FIRM SCIENTIFIC FOUNDATION THAT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED BEFORE IT HITS THE TRIAL COURT TO BE RELIABLE AND VALID SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE ADMITTED INTO COURTS.

AND SO OFTEN TIMES IT'S ALMOST TOO LATE AT THAT POINT IF IT'S BEING ADMITTED IN TRIAL.

THAT'S WHY THESE HEARINGS THAT WE HAVE, THESE ADMISSIBILITY HEARINGS THAT LED TO THE DECISION ARE SO CRITICAL.

>> Jeff: OUR THANKS TO Mr. GILLERRAN AND THAT IS ""STATE CIRCLE"" FOR THIS WEEK.

JOIN US EVERY WEEK AT THIS TIME FOR THE LATEST ON MARYLAND'S POLITICAL STAGE.

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THAT'S MONDAY EVENING LIVE AT 7 P.M. NOW FOR ALL OF US AT MPT, THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND WE'LL SEE