THIS PROGRAM IS MADE BY MPT TO ENRICH THE DIVERSE COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT OUR STATE AND IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF OUR MEMBERS.

THANK YOU.

CONNECTING MARYLANDERS TO THEIR GOVERNMENT, THIS IS "STATE CIRCLE".

>> Jeff: WELCOME TO STATED STATE.

COMING UP IN OUR POLITICAL ROUNDS TABLE GOVERNOR MOORE IN SOUTH CAROLINA BUT NOT CAMPAIGNING AND A SPLIT DECISION ON BOND RATINGS.

BUT WE BEGIN THIS WEEK WITH THE GOVERNOR'S CONTROVERSIAL VETO OF A BILL RELATED TO SLAVERY REPARATIONS.

NANCY AMATA HAS THE STORY.

>> I NEVER HAD THE IMPRESSION THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A VETO.

AND SO I LITERALLY AM SITTING HERE IN MOURNING.

>> THE DELEGATE SAYS SHE IS STILL IN DISBELIEF AT THE STATE'S FIRST BLACK GOVERNOR VETOED HER BILL THAT WOULD HAVE CREATED A COMMISSION TO STUDY REPARATIONS FROM THE DESCENDS ENDS OF SLAVES IN MARYLAND.

AND IT WAS REJECTED.

>> I THINK IT WAS A MISCALCULATION ON OUR GOVERNOR.

I DON'T THINK HE THOUGHT THERE WAS GOING TO BE SO MUCH OF AN IMPACT EVEN OUTSIDE OF THE STATE OF MARYLAND.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE OUR SOUTHERN LAWMAKERS WHO ARE CONTACTING THE STATE OF MARYLAND.

FOLKS WERE HOPING THAT IF WE CAN GET THIS DONE SO COULD THEY.

>> GOVERNOR MOORE SAID IN A LETTER TO THE SENATE PRESIDENT THAT OVER THE LAST 25 YEARS, MARYLAND HAS LAUNCHED SEVERAL COMMISSIONS AND STUDY GROUPS TO EXAMINE THE LEGACY OF SLAVERY ADDING NOW IS THE TIME TO FOCUS ON THE WORK ITSELF NARROWING THE RACIAL WEALTH GAP, EXPANDING HOMEOWNERSHIP, UPLIFTING ENTREPRENEURS OF COLOR AND CLOSING THE DISPARITIES THAT LEAD TO INEQUALITY FROM FOOD INSECURITY TO EDUCATION.

>> I THINK IT IS A FALSE CHOICE BETWEEN LOOKING AT REPARATIONS AND DOING BOTH POLICY.

WE HAVE PASSED 40 PIECES OF LEGISLATION THIS TIME ALONE.

>> THE DELEGATE IS THE CHAIR OF THE LEGISLATIVE BLACK CAUCUS.

>> THE ISSUE OF REPARATIONS HAS NEVER EVER BEEN ADDRESSED IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND.

THIS BILL IS THE FIRST TIME EVER THAT OUR STATE IS SAYING WE ARE LOOKING TO PUT TOGETHER AN ACTION PLAN, PUT TOGETHER MARYLANDERS IMPACTED ALSO BRING TOGETHER OUR SCHOLARS OUR HBCUS AND OTHERS TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN MOVE FORWARD FORWARD WITH REPARATIONS IN OUR STATE TO REPAIR AND REDRESS THE HARM OF INJUSTICES.

>> SOME ARE QUESTIONING WHO SHOULD BE HELD RESPONSIBLE.

>> AND THIS LIST OF BILLS AND LAWS THAT HAVE BEEN PRODUCED BY ARCHIVES SHOWS THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN MARYLAND CONSISTENTLY WANT AN OPPRESSED AFRICAN-AMERICAN VOTER.

IT IS IRONIC NOW THAT THE CONTEMPORARY DEMOCRATIC PARTY WANTS ALL OF US TO COMPENSATE FOR THE DAMAGE THAT WAS DONE WHEN THE EVIDENCE CLEARLY SHOWS IT WAS A DEMOCRATIC PARTY RAN AFOUL AND DID THIS TO US.

>> THIS IS NOT A PARTY ISSUE IT IS CORRECTING BUILDING PATH.

>> AT WHAT COST?

>> WHEN YOU PUT FORTH REPARATIONS IT CREATES A A BACKLASH FROM PEOPLE THINKING I'M NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO RECOGNIZE THE INJUSTICE TOOK PLACE AND PUT IT OUT THERE, FIND EQUALITY FOR ALL OF US.

WE NEED TO EXIST ON AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD.

>> SUPPORTERS SAY THE FIGHT IS NOT OVER THEY ARE CONFIDENT THEY WILL GET THE THREE-FIFTHS NEEDED IN BOTH HOUSES TO OVERRIDE THE GOVERNOR'S VETO.

>> WE WILL DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S EXAMINED IN MARYLAND.

IT'S TAKEN OVER 20 YEARS TO PASS LEGISLATION ON REPARATIONS AND WE'VE SEEN OTHER STATES AND GOVERNORS SIGN IT INTO LAW.

WE'VE SEEN IT IN CALIFORNIA, ILLINOIS AND NEW YORK.

AND MARYLAND ABSOLUTELY MUST BE NEXT.

>> I'M NANCY AMATA FOR "STATE CIRCLE".

>> Jeff: NOW JOINING US FOR THE POLITICAL ROUNDTABLE ROGER HARTLEY DEAN OF THE COLLEGE OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF BALTIMORE AND MALCOLM DREWERY A PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY AT MORGAN STATE UNIVERSITY.

GENTLEMEN THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

PICKING UP ON THE GOVERNOR'S CONTROVERSIAL VETO OF THE REPARATIONS STUDY BILL.

SOME PEOPLE WONDER IF THERE IS A POLITICAL ANGLE HERE, IF IT'S CONNECTED MAYBE WITH HIS REPUTED INTEREST IN NATIONAL OFFICE.

WHAT DO YOU SEE?

DOES THAT EVEN MAKE SENSE?

>> JEFF, IT ABSOLUTELY DOES MAKE SENSE.

GOVERNOR MOORE IS A RISING STAR AND NATIONAL POLITICS SOME MAY BELIEVE THAT HE IS WEIGHING HEAVILY THE BROADER IMPLICATIONS OF ENDORSING REPARATIONS ON A FUTURE PRESIDENTIAL RUN.

THERE'S CONCERNS THAT EMBRACING A REPARATIONS COMMISSION COULD MAKE HIM A TARGET OR BE SEEN AS POLARIZING ON THE NATIONAL STAGE.

SO THAT SAID, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURPRISED THAT HE DID VETO THIS BILL.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU.

THERE WAS AN ELEMENT OF POLITICAL TRIANGULATION TRYING TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO TAKE A REALLY CONTROVERSIAL VOTE FOR MAYBE MIDDLE AMERICA.

YOU KNOW, GENERALLY IN POLLING WHITES DON'T MUCH APPROVE OF REPARATIONS BILLS.

AND AFRICAN-AMERICANS BLACKS DO.

I WILL SAY THAT I'VE HEARD AND THIS IS ANECDOTALLY ON THE STREET IT WAS A BIG SURPRISE TO THE BLACK CAUCUS AND THERE WAS GREAT CONCERN.

THERE MAYBE NEED TO BE REPAIRING WITH THE BASE A LITTLE BIT ON THIS.

THE ONE THING I WAS TOLD THIS IS JUST ENDORSING A STUDY IT WASN'T REPARATIONS THEMSELVES.

SO ANYWAY THERE'S PROBABLY HOUSES AND FENCES TO MEND THERE.

>> Jeff: AND IT WAS GOING TO BE A TWO-YEAR STUDY SO IT WOULD HAVE DROPPED IN 2027 MAYBE LIKE A FOUR-YEAR STUDY WOULD HAVE WON THE GOVERNOR'S SIGNATURE DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

>> PRETTY MUCH.

AS YOU STATED IT WOULD HAVE CONCLUDED AROUND 2027.

I ALMOST SEE IT IS A STUDY BUT LIKE THESE STUDIES I WOULD HAVE PROBABLY CALLED TO DO LIKE AN I'VE SEEN OTHER PEOPLE CALL IT, A REPARATIONS ACCOUNTABILITY COMMISSION.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.

THE COMMISSION WAS PASSED BY THE MARYLAND GENERAL ASSEMBLY WITH STRONG SUPPORT FROM THE MARYLAND BLACK CAUCUS.

SO IT WAS VERY SURPRISING TO THEM.

AND IT REPRESENTS A CRITICAL OPPORTUNITY TO HOLD THE STATE ACCOUNTABLE FOR CENTURIES OF HARM INFLICTED ON THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

SO THE COMMISSION ISN'T JUST SOMETHING THAT'S SYMBOLIC.

IT FOLLOWS LIKE A ESTABLISHED INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS OF REPAIR, COMPENSATION, SATISFACTION.

GUARANTEES OF NON-REPETITIVE REHABILITATION AND RESTITUTION.

LIKE SO THIS PROCESS TREATS SLAVERY AND AFTERMATH OF THE CRIMES COMMITTED AGAINST HUMANITY.

BUT JUST LIKE ANY OTHER TYPE OF CRIME A FORMAL INQUIRY LIKE A TRIAL NEEDS TO BE HAD BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY WOULD PUT TOGETHER SOMETHING AS FAR AS REPARATIONS.

>> Jeff: ONE MORE POINT ON THE POLLING ON THIS, AND, YES, OF COURSE IT IS WAY MORE POPULAR IDEA IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY THAN IT IS AMONG WHITE VOTERS.

THE OVERALL ELECTORATE I'VE SEEN POLLS AROUND 30%.

IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT DEMOCRATS AND PEOPLE WHO LEAN DEMOCRATIC, PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE VOTING IN A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY AND SAY SOUTH CAROLINA WHICH WE'LL TALK ABOUT IN A MINUTE IT POLLS 50/50.

SO MALCOLM LOOKING AT IT FROM THE STANDPOINT OF SOMEBODY WHO MAY OR MAY NOT WANT TO RUN FOR THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION FOR PRESIDENT, IS IT REALLY AN ISSUE?

>> I THINK SO.

BECAUSE IT COULD POLARIZE THE BASE.

AND NOT ACTUALLY WANTING HIM TO RUN OR SO TO HAVE THAT ON THE TABLE, IT CAN CAUSE A LOT OF BACKLASH AMONGST CONSTITUENTS, AMONGST THE PARTY THAT WITH IT NOT BEING THERE SAYING HE HAS ALREADY VETOED THAT AND TAKEN IT OFF THE TABLE MAKES HIM LOOK A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

IT DOESN'T HOLD WELL FOR THE BLACK COMMUNITY PER SE.

BUT FOR THE REST OF THE BASE, IT MAY GIVE HIM A DIFFERENT STANDING MORE POSITIVE STANDING IN THAT AREA.

>> Jeff: ROGER LET'S PICK UP ON SOUTH CAROLINA IF I MAY.

THE GOVERNOR IS GIVING A SPEECH THERE TONIGHT, THE PALMETTO BLUE DINNER AND THE GOVERNOR INSISTS HE IS NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

EVERYBODY ELSE SEEMS TO THINK THAT MAYBE HE'S GOT AN INTEREST IN IT.

IS THIS A SPEECH HE WOULD GIVE CONSIDERING THIS IS AN EARLY PRIMARY STATE IF ONE WERE THINKING ABOUT MAYBE ONE DAY RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR -- PRESIDENT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S A PLACE YOU WANT TO BE.

I MEAN, POLITICAL SCIENCE TEACHES US THAT YOU NEED TO VISIT THE EARLY STATES.

IOWA, NEW HAMPSHIRE AND SOUTH CAROLINA.

SOUTH CAROLINA IS CONSIDERED THE GATEWAY TO THE SOUTH.

IT'S ALSO GOT A VERY HIGH REPRESENTATION OF DEMOCRATS AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN DEMOCRATS.

AND THEN WHEN REPRESENTATIVE CLYBURN ASKS YOU TO SPEAK YOU SHOW UP.

AND HONESTLY IT IS A REALLY GOOD MOVE FOR HIM.

BUT WHEN WE'RE WONDERING WHO IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, WE START TO LOOK AT VISITS TO THOSE EARLY STATES.

WE ALSO START TO LOOK AT AND THEN ARE THEY APPEARING ON NATIONWIDE PROGRAMS LIKE THE VIEW, WHICH HE DID.

SO WE HAVE INDICATIONS WE'LL KEEP WATCHING ABSOLUTELY.

>> Jeff: WHAT STRATEGY WOULD MAKE SENSE?

THE FIELD IS EXPECTED TO BE LARGE.

BUT YOU DON'T TOTALLY KNOW WHO IS IN IT.

QUESTION FOR EITHER OF YOU.

HOW SHOULD WES MOORE IF HE WANTS TO BE THE PRESIDENT POSITION HIMSELF?

>> WITH WHAT ROGER SAID AND HIS APPEARANCE AT THAT DINNER AND HE CONSISTENTLY DENIES THAT HE IS GOING TO RUN OR MAKE A PRESIDENTIAL RUN.

WHICH MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

GIVEN THAT HE IS SAYING HE WANTS TO FOCUS ON THE CURRENT FOCUS IS ON MARYLAND AND ITS CHALLENGES.

AND LIKEN GAUGING IN THESE NATIONAL ACTIVITIES AND EVENS AND APPEARANCES DOES SERVE THAT DUAL PURPOSE ADDRESSING STATE ISSUES WHILE ENHANCING HIS NATIONAL PROFILE FOR FUTURE OPPORTUNITIES.

THIS IS A GOOD LOOK NOT TO PUT HIMSELF OUT THERE THAT EARLY ON.

ESPECIALLY GIVEN EVERYTHING THAT IS HAPPENING WITHIN THE STATE RIGHT NOW.

FOCUSING ON THE NATIONAL AGENDA OR FOCUSING ON DIFFERENT THINGS OUTSIDE OF THE STATE MIGHT NOT BODE WELL WITH THE CONSTITUENCY HERE.

ESPECIALLY GIVEN 2026 IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER AND HE NEEDS TO MAKE A SECOND RUN.

>> I AGREE COMPLETELY.

I THINK POSITIONING HIMSELF AS SOMEONE WHO IS EXCITING HE IS ALREADY EXCITING PEOPLE IN DEMOCRAT CIRCLES LIKE GEORGE CLOONEY AND OTHER FUNDERS.

BEING ABLE TO SHOW THAT HE EXCITES THE BASE WHICH GOING BACK TO THE EARLIER POINT ON THE REPARATIONS VOTE YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THAT YOU DON'T GO SO FAR IN THE MIDDLE THAT YOU UPSET YOUR BASE WHICH IS ANGRY AND VERY ACTIVE DUE TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CHANGES RIGHT NOW.

SO YOU DON'T WANT TO BE PERCEIVED AS BEING NOT ON THE SITED OF THE BASE BUT I THINK HE IS SKILLED AND IS EASILY ABLE TO DO THAT.

THE OTHER THING THAT MIGHT LEAD INTO MORE CONVERSATION IS JUST WE KNOW THAT HE IS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

AND THERE IS A PLAYBOOK FOR THAT.

YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THAT YOU ARE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR AND NOT HAVE A BIGAMIES THERE.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU HAVE TO BE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT RIGHT NOW RUNNING BEHIND THE SCENES BUILDING MONEY, BUILDING NAME RECOGNITION AND BUILDING ORGANIZATION.

SO YOU HAVE TO DO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.

IT'S TRICKY BUT IT'S BEEN DONE.

>> Jeff: WHOEVER THE REPUBLICANS NOMINATE FOR GOVERNOR AND RUMORS OF COURSE THAT FORMER GOVERNOR HOGAN IS INTERESTED, WHOEVER IT IS THEY WILL BE RUNNING COMMERCIALS ABOUT MARYLAND LOSING THE TRIPLE A BOND RATING.

MOODY'S DOWNGRADED THE STATE THE TWO AGENCIES REAFFIRMED TRIPLE A.

IS THAT A BIG IMPEDIMENT TO GOVERNOR MOORE'S REELECTION?

>> WELL, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT CERTAINLY THE ECONOMY IS ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS IN THE MINDS OF VOTERS WHEN THEY COME TO THE POLLS AMONG HOT BUTTON ISSUES.

AND THE ECONOMY IN MARYLAND IS NOT GOOD.

WE HAVE A $3 BILLION DEFICIT AND THAT MEANS THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN ABLE TO SHOW LEADERSHIP BY MAKING TOUGH CHOICES BUT MAKING TOUGH CHOICES ALSO UPSETS PEOPLE BECAUSE SOMEBODY IS GETTING CUT.

AND WHEN YOU GET CUT, YOU HAVE TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO KEEP THEM ONBOARD.

IT'S INTERESTING RIGHT NOW FOR INSTANCE, THAT HE OR HIS PACTD IS RUNNING ADS ABOUT THE BUSINESS CLIMATE HE HAS SUPPORTED FOR SMALL BUSINESS ALREADY AND VERY EARLY.

I THINK THAT IS A WISE CHOICE TO TRY TO GET IN FRONT OF THE MESSAGE THAT MARYLAND'S ECONOMY IS NOT NECESSARILY ON HIM, AND ALSO MARYLAND'S ECONOMY IS SOMETHING THAT HE IS WORKING ON.

>> Jeff: MALCOLM I WAS SURPRISED WATCHING AN ORIOLES GAME THIS WEEK TO SEE A PROWESS WES AD FROM A POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE.

DOES THAT INDICATE THAT SOMEBODY'S WORRIED ABOUT IT?

OR IS THAT A ROUTINE THING TO DO AT THIS POINT?

>> AS ROGER INDICATED, I THINK HIS RUN FOR GOVERNORSHIP BEGINS NOW.

SO SOME PEOPLE MAY SEE IT AS BEING SOMETHING NEGATIVE AND MAYBE WE NEED TO WORRY A LITTLE BIT.

GIVEN ALL THE NEWS ABOUT THE DEFICIT AND FINANCIALLY HOW MARYLAND IS DOING.

THIS DOWNGRADE DIDN'T NECESSARILY HELP.

>> Jeff: OUR THANKS TO PROFESSORS HARTLEY AND DRURY.

>> Jeff: NOW ON THE BOOK BEAT WE ARE JOINED BY PAUL BIERMAN, THE AUTHOR OF "WHEN THE ICE IS GONE: WHAT A GREENLAND ICE CORE REVEALS".

DOCTOR YOU ARE A PROFESSOR OF GEOLOGY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF VERMONT AND A GEOMORE THOL GIFT.

TELL US ABOUT THAT LAST PART WHAT IS THAT.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

IT IS A SCIENTIST WHO STUDIES EARTH'S SURFACE AND THE PROCESSES AND THE HISTORY THAT GO ON AT THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH WHERE WE EXIST.

I SPENT A LOT OF MY CAREER THINKING ABOUT HOW HUMANS AND THE LANDSCAPE INTERACT AND THE IMPLICATIONS FOR THE ENVIRONMENT.

>> Jeff: THE BOOK TELLS THE STORY OF GREENLAND AND ICE AND GREENLAND HAS A LOT OF IT.

YOU MADE A DISCOVERY HOW LONG IT'S ACTUALLY BEEN THERE.

TELL US WHAT YOU FOUND?

>> GREENLAND IS COVERED OVER 80% BY ICE.

AND THAT ICE IF IT WERE TO MELT WOULD RAISE SEA LEVEL AROUND THE WORLD ABOUT 25 FEET.

SO OUR WORK HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE 2010.

AND WE'RE INTERESTED IN UNDERSTANDING THE HISTORY OF THAT ICE SHEET BECAUSE OF ITS IMPLICATIONS FOR PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO LIVE IN THE COASTAL ZONE.

WE FOUND A THE NORTHWEST GREENLAND THE ICE SHEET DISAPPEARED 400,000 YEARS AGO.

ALMOST A MILE OF ICE MELTED AND THE MARGIN RETREATED 130 MILES.

AND I SAY AT LEAST BECAUSE IT'S POSSIBLE THAT 400,000 YEARS AGO THE ICE SHEET VANISHED.

>> Jeff: WHAT WAS THE PLANET EARTH LIKE 400,000 YEARS AGO?

WAS IT A HOT PERIOD ON THE SURFACE?

WAS GREENLAND WOULDN'T HAVE MOVED THAT MUCH IN 400,000 YEARS.

>> IT WAS IN THE ARCTIC.

TEMPERATURES 400,000 YEARS AGO WERE THE SAME AS THEY ARE TODAY.

THAT INCLUDES THE RISE THAT WE HAVE CAUSED BY EMITTING THE CARBON MONOXIDE LEVELS WERE 290 PARTS PER MILLION.

LAST TIME I LOOKED OUR CONCENTRATION IN THE ATMOSPHERE WAS ALMOST 430.

WE HAVE INCREASED THE CONCENTRATION 50% OVER WHERE IT WOULD BE NATURAL.

AND THAT'S WHY OUR CLIMATE IS WARMING WE'RE SEEING MORE EXTREME STORM EVENTS AND DROUGHTS.

AND WE'RE SEEING SEA LEVEL RISE.

>> Jeff: THE PROCESS OF YOUR DISCOVERY IN GREENLAND THAT YOU DISCUSS IN THE BOOK, IS REALLY INTERESTING, BECAUSE YOU WERE RELYING ON WORK THAT WAS DONE AFTER WORLD WAR II BY THE U.S. MILITARY.

FIRST, WHY WAS THE U.S. MILITARY AT THAT POINT, WHICH I BELIEVE WAS PRETRUMP, WHY WERE WE INTERESTED IN GREENLAND?

>> WE WERE INTERESTED BECAUSE IT WAS STRATEGICALLY IMPORTANT TO THIS COUNTRY.

WE BECAME INTERESTED -- WE CAN GO BACK TO THE EXPLORERS.

ADMIRAL PERRY AND THE VISITING OF THE NORTH POLE.

IN THE EARLY 1900'S PUT A FOCUS ON GREENLAND.

IN WORLD WAR II WE CARED ABOUT IT STRATEGICALLY.

WE WOULD FLY THE PLANES BECAUSE THERE WERE TOO MANY U BOATS IN THE ATLANTIC AND GREENLAND WAS A PRIME PLACE TO REFUEL.

THEY DID HAVE A HABIT OF FALLING OUT OF THE SKIES.

THERE WAS NO RADAR SO THE U.S. ARMY AND COAST GUARD WERE TASKED WITH RESCUING THE FLYERS WHO LANDED ON THE ICE AND LEARNED WE DID NOT KNOW HOW TO WORK IN THE ART PARTICULAR.

THERE WAS A BIG PUSH TO UNDERSTAND TRAFFIC ABILITY HOW DO YOU MOVE PEOPLE, MACHINES, ACROSS AN ICE SHEET.

AND AT THE SAME TIME THERE WAS AN INTEREST AND I KNOW THIS MIGHT BE HARD TO BELIEVE AN INTEREST IN THE U.S. MILITARY AND CLIMATE CHANGE.

THE CLIMATE WAS WARM UNWILLING THE 1940s AND THE MILITARY SAID WHAT IF THAT SNOW AND ICE MELTS.

THEY INVESTED RESOURCES IN UNDERSTANDING SNOW AND THAT LED THEM TO DRILL AN ICE CORE AT CAMP SCENERY.

AND MUCH OF THE BOOK IS DOMINATED BY CAMP CENTURY IT IS A MILITARY BASE BUILT INSIDE THE ICE SHEET CAN HOLD-UP TO 200 MEN AND POWERED BY A NUCLEAR REACTOR.

WE THINK ABOUT THE MOONSHOT BEING A BIG DEAL THIS WAS 10 YEARS BEFORE AND TIED TO IT IN THE SENSE A LOT OF THE SCIENCE WAS UNDERSTANDING HOW PEOPLE COULD WORK IN REMOTE ENVIRONMENTS.

>> Jeff: THE MILITARY PRESERVED THESE ICE CORES FOR A LONGTIME.

SO YOU WERE ABLE TO LOOK AT THE ICE AND BEYOND THE ICE WHAT WAS UNDER IT AND THAT'S WHERE YOU MADE WHAT YOU DESCRIBED AS YOUR EUREKA MOMENT DISCOVERY.

>> IN 1966 ON JULY 4 BUT IT WAS JULY 2 THEY FINISHED PENETRATING THE ICE AND KEPT GOING INTO FROZEN SOIL AND THEY COLLECTED ALMOST 12 FEET OF FROZEN SOIL.

THE ARMY PARTICULARLY THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS KEPT THAT CORE FROZEN UNTIL THE MID-70s AND TRANSFERRED TO THE UNIVERSITY OF BUFFALO AND IN 1990s IT VANISHED.

IT WAS REFOUND IN 2017, AND WE GOT SAMPLES FROM IT AT THAT POINT.

THE AMAZING THING IS WE THINK OF CLIMATE CHANGE RIGHT NOW AS A VERY POLITICAL HOT POTATO RED, BLUE, PARTISAN ISSUE.

THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE MILITARY DID THE FIRST CLIMATE CHANGE RESEARCH IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND THAT IS A CONSERVATIVE ORGANIZATION.

SO I JUST THINK IT IS A FANTASTIC BRIDGING OF OUR DIVIDE AT THE MOMENT TO KNOW THAT THE MILITARY WAS IMPORTANT IN UNDERSTANDING OF CLIMATE.

THE MOMENT CAME AS WE WERE PROCESSING THE SAMPLES WE HAD GOTTEN ON A HOT JULY DAY.

WE MELTED THEM AND THEN WE WERE LOOKING AT WHAT WE HAD MELTED AND WE WERE SIEVING IT TO GET THE SAND AND GRAVEL OUT AND I LOOKED DOWN IN A BIN AND THERE FLOATING WERE BLACK SPECS I HAD ONLY SEEN THAT ONCE BEFORE WHEN I CORED LAKES AND WE WERE INTERESTED IN THE MATERIAL AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LAKES AND I KNEW THOSE WERE BITS OF PLANTS AND THE TWO FELLOWS WERE SKEPTICAL WHEN I MENTIONED SOMETHING LIKE THIS THAT IS BEING NICE.

AND I PIPE HEADED A FEW OF THOSE FILTERED MORE AND HANDED A PIECE OF FILTER PAPER WITH THE BLACK SPECS ON IT TO MY COLLEAGUES AND ASKED THEM TO PUT IT UNDER A MICROSCOPE THERE WAS A AS I DESCRIBE IT A STRING OF HAPPY EXPLETIVES WHEN THERE WERE BITS OF WOOD, BITS OF INSECTS AND MOTHS.

WE FOUND THE REMAINS OF AN ECOSYSTEM BURIED UNDER A MILE OF ICE.

AND IT WAS A QUICK TRANSITION FOR US TO SAY WAIT A MINUTE THAT MEANT THE ICE HAD TO BE GONE.

AND THE BEAUTY OF THAT IS THIS EVIDENCE THAT IS VISCERAL.

I COULD HAND A PICTURE OF THAT TO ANY PERSON AND SAY WHAT IS IT AND THEY WOULD SAY, TWIG, LEAF, BUG.

AND IT'S NOT LIKE A COMPUTER MODEL IT'S NOT LIKE SCIENCE HARD TO UNDERSTAND.

IT'S HERE'S PIECES OF VEGETATION WHERE TODAY THERE IS A MILE OF ICE.

>> Jeff: DRAW A LINE FROM THAT TO THE FUTURE OF GREENLAND AND FUTURE OF OUR PLANET.

WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

>> IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE NOW WE HAVE EVIDENCE THAT THE ICE SHEET HAS MELTED BEFORE.

AND IT MELTED WHEN TEMPERATURES WERE LIKE TODAY WITH A LOT LESS CO2 IN THE ATMOSPHERE.

AND WE AS A SOCIETY ARE DOING JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING WE CAN TO WARM THIS PLANET.

WE ARE CONTINUING TO EMIT RECORD AMOUNTS OF CARBON DIOXIDE AND THE PLANET WILL RESPOND QUICKLY.

AND THE LINK IS CLEAR BEFORE AND RAISED GLOBAL SEA LEVELS BY FEET MANY FEET PERHAPS AS MUCH AS 24 FEET.

IT WILL DO THAT AGAIN UNLESS WE CHANGE OUR WAYS.

AND CHANGING OUR WAYS INVOLVES DECARBONIZING OUR ENERGY SYSTEM AND WE HAVE THE TOOLS TO DO THAT WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE POLITICAL WILL YET WORLDWIDE AND IT'S GOING TO MEAN GETTING THAT CARBON DIOXIDE OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE.

BUT WE CAN STILL DO IT.

AND YOU COMMENTED BEFORE THAT I'M OFTEN SMILING AND I AM, BECAUSE I THINK WE HAVE TO TAKE A POSITIVE APPROACH TO THIS.

THE DOOM AND GLOOM APPROACH TO CLIMATE FAILS US FOR 20 YEARS.

WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO IMPROVE OUR LIVES MAINTAIN THE QUALITY OF THIS PLANET WE LIVE ON.

AND I THINK THERE ARE BRIGHT PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO WILL HELP US SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.

>> Jeff: THERE CERTAINLY SKEPTICS OUT THERE WHO LOOK AT OLD PREDICTIONS FROM DECADES AGO, AND SAY YOU KNOW, THE STATUE OF LIBERTY IS NOT UNDERWATER.

SO THIS WHOLE THING IS A SCAM.

>> YEAH, WELL, I THINK THAT COULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING CONSIDERED 20 YEARS AGO.

WE HAVE SUCH ROBUST DATA NOW THAT SHOW THE EARTH IS WARMING THE SEA LEVEL IS RISING, LOCK STEP WITH THE INCREASE IN CARBON DIOXIDE AND THE PHYSICS BEHIND THIS HAS BEEN KNOWN FOR 200 YEARS.

THIS IS NOTHING NEW.

IF YOU ASK SCIENTISTS WITH ANY EXPERTISE IN CLIMATE, THE CERTAINTY THIS IS HUMAN CAUSED AND IT IS A PROBLEM IS OVER 99%.

IT'S COMING TO EVERYBODY.

AND THAT IS WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND THAT IS A CHANGE I'VE SEEN IN THE LAST DECADE NO LONGER IS IT JUST SCIENTISTS IT'S THE AVERAGE PERSON THE PERSON WHO SEES MORE DAYS OVER 100 IN THE SUMMER OR SEES THE INNER HARBOR FLOODING MORE FREQUENTLY AND SEES MORE DROUGHT IN THE MIDWEST.

ASK FARMERS AND PEOPLE IN VERMONT WHERE I LIVE NOW WHERE WE'VE HAD 200 YEAR FLOODS TWO YEARS IN A ROW.

THE ATMOSPHERE IS GETTING JUICIER IT HAS MORE MOISTURE AND MORE RAIN IS COMING OUT.

I THINK WE'RE AT WHAT WE MIGHT REFER TO AS A TIPPING POINT AS SCIENTISTS LIKE WE CROSS A BOUNDARY AND EVERYTHING WILL FALL APART.

I'M MORE HOPEFUL I THINK WE ARE REACHING THE TIPPING POINT WHERE WE ARE REALIZING THAT CLIMATE MATTERS TO ALL OF US AN INVESTMENT THAT WILL PAY OFF IN STABILIZING OUR CLIMATE.

>> Jeff: ONE FOOTNOTE TO OUR CONVERSATION, I SHOULD DISCLOSE YOU AND I WERE CLASSMATES A LONG, LONG TIME AGO AND THAT IS THE WHY YOU'VE BEEN TO THE INNER HARBOR IN BALTIMORE AND I ALWAYS KNEW YOU WERE A SMART GUY, A MATH GUY IF I RECALL.

DID I NOT KNOW YOU WERE A SNAPPY WRITER.

>> I HAVE HAD A LOT OF PRACTICE WRITING AND A COUPLE EXCELLENT EDITORS WHICH I CREDIT ANY SUCCESS I'VE HAD TO THE PEOPLE WHO HELPED ME OUT.

>> Jeff: PAUL BIERMAN THE BOOK IS "WHEN THE ICE IS GONE: WHAT A GREENLAND ICE CORE REVEALS".

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

THANKS TO PAUL BIERMAN AND THAT IS "STATE CIRCLE" FOR THIS WEEK.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE MONDAY EVENING AT 7:00 P.M. FOR "DIRECT CONNECTION".